8 posts tagged with "helium antenna"

Do you have the best antenna for your location? What kind of coverage is your Helium Hotspot providing? Is the location you've identified as good on Helium.Vision actually that good?

https://youtu.be/beHpEHt0wQU

The way to answer these questions definitively is to test your setup. No amount of simulation, prediction, or just thinking (or even hoping) will replace the stone-cold facts of an actual test.

I've covered a few ways to test various components, but this time we'll dig in to where the rubber meets the road:

QUESTION: How will a specific antenna at a specific proposed location actually perform?​

Let's start by defining what kind of data you'd need to answer that question.

First, you're going to want to know if your ANTENNA is actually working, and how well it's working.

Second, you'll want to know HOW MANY Hotspots your proposed location can be witnessed by. Since beacons & witnesses are two sides of the same coin, it's pretty reasonable to assume that "if they can hear you, you can hear them." Yes, that's an assumption. Yes, I'm familiar with the assumption ASS-U-ME problem. This particular assumption is very likely to be useful, though it may not be as accurate as we'd like.

Third, if you plan on actually using the Helium Network (which is where all the long term profits are), a test should show you what kind of coverage your proposed location will provide beyond just being witnessed by other Hotspots.

I'm using a GLAMOS Walker, along with its companion app/site, to do my testing.

Here's how it works in broad strokes, then we'll dig into the details.

1. Set up the GLAMOS.​

2. Take the GLAMOS to your proposed location, attach the antenna(s) you're going to use or test, and fire off a bunch of beacons.​

3. Head back over to the GLAMOS app to see your results.​

GLAMOS SET UP - PART 1​

The set up is straightforward. Slaven, the creator of the GLAMOS, gives world class support, so if you get stuck when you're going through the directions, check in on the Discord #glamos channel for help from him or the GLAMOS community.

The first thing to do is create an account over on the GLAMOS app, then follow the instructions below. I've included both Slaven's demo video as well as a written out version.

https://youtu.be/KNUkJyHfcTE

1. Go to the GLAMOS app, then create an account or sign in.
2. Go to Devices on the top menu, and Add Device

Now add in the Serial Number and DevEUI of your device. You should have received an email with these when you bought the GLAMOS, so you can just copy/paste 'em in. Or, like me, you can miss the email, turn the GLAMOS on and go to Settings --> Keys then manually type 'em in.

Trust me, you should use the copy/paste option. :)

Ok, so you might think now that all you've got to do is attach the antenna you want to test, head to your location, and mash that SEND - ONCE button.

Not so fast, turbo. You need to add in the gateways (aka Helium Hotspots) you want to test. That could be a large area, or it could just be the deployment net you're using. If you'd like to test all the gateways within a radius of a point, you'll need to set that up. Here's how:

Go to the Menu bar at the top of the app and click on Gateways, then click on the Add Gateway button.

Every Gateway has to know what Server it's going to use. In this case, we're using Helium, but the GLAMOS can also be used for other protocols & projects.

Now you've got a choice: Do you want to test a very specific part of the Network, say a few Helium Hotspots you've deployed to see if they can "see" each other, or do you want to do testing of all gateways over a wider area? I wanted to test a couple antennas over a wide area, so I chose "Add all gateways in range to server", like this:

Select a center point and a radius, then let 'er rip.

Back in the Gateways menu you'll now see your new Server, woohoo! Cool, so now your GLAMOS knows what to do. Next up is telling it who to do it with. You'll need to get it connected to your Console account on the Helium Network. Yep, the data credits to run this thing will come from your account. Relax, it's pennies.

PART 2: PROVISION GLAMOS ON HELIUM CONSOLE​

Slaven, the creator of the GLAMOS, has made a little vid for ya on how to navigate this.

https://youtu.be/pwa3mXbS3x8

Just in case you need that decoder script link from the video, here it is. The one I started with is below, but that's being updated all the time. Use the link for the latest version.

function Decoder(bytes, port) { 
  // Decode an uplink message from a buffer (array) of bytes to an object of fields. 
  //Decoder for GLAMOS Walker device. 
  
  var decoded = {}; 
  
  decoded.latitude = ((bytes[0]<<16)>>>0) + ((bytes[1]<<8)>>>0) + bytes[2]; 
  decoded.latitude  = (decoded.latitude / 16777215.0 * 180) - 90; 
  decoded.latitude = +decoded.latitude .toFixed(7); 
  
  decoded.longitude = ((bytes[3]<<16)>>>0) + ((bytes[4]<<8)>>>0) + bytes[5]; 
  decoded.longitude = (decoded.longitude / 16777215.0 * 360) - 180;
  decoded.longitude = +decoded.longitude .toFixed(7); 
  
  var altValue = ((bytes[6]<<8)>>>0) + bytes[7]; 
  var sign = bytes[6] & (1 << 7); 
  if(sign) 
  { 
    decoded.altitude = 0xFFFF0000 | altValue; 
  } 
  else 
  { 
    decoded.altitude = altValue; 
  } 
  
  decoded.ant  = bytes[8]; 
  
  decoded.accuracy = 3; 
  
  decoded.position_num = bytes[9]; 
  
  
  return decoded; 
}

Ok, so now your GLAMOS Walker is set up, it's connected to the Helium Network and you're ready to start testing. Nice work!

TESTING ANTENNAS WITH THE GLAMOS​

If you have antennas with N-type fittings (many of them do), you'll need an adaptor to go from the GLAMOS to the antenna. Current GLAMOS have a little connector-adaptor kit. I bought mine a while ago, so mine didn't. I mean, you know me: I would've made cables anyway.

You can order custom cables from McGill Microwave. I'd recommend 4-5' of LMR 240, and get SMA-Male and N-Male connectors. Obvi you can use the GLAMOS to test antenna cables as well, so if you want to get wild order different lengths and types, but for now we'll keep it simple.

Cables are generally a good idea because standing too close to the antenna when you test it can skew the results. I made one that was 4' long so I can sit at the base of my testing rig and work the GLAMOS away from the antenna.

I start by checking to make sure the antenna is actually working and all my connections are good. For this, I use a little VNA I got off Banggood, though you can get 'em off Amazon as well. Here's a VSWR reading of 1.267 off the HNTenna, excellent as usual. For the purposes of this test we just want to make sure the VSWR is lower than 2. All of the antennas in this test were between 1.175 and 1.367. So far, so good.

Now to test with the GLAMOS! I followed Slaven's advice and set up the GLAMOS to send 10 messages each time. I did that 2 times for each antenna, so I had decent numbers to work with.

You can find this setting in the GLAMOS under SEND - MULTI --> SAME SF(loop) -- REPEAT (set that to 10x).

The readings off a single packet don't give you enough data to make a good decision. Data credits are cheap as chips, so burn 'em up. In this case I tested 5 antennas 20 times each, and with a few misfires I managed to spend 277 DC. Whoop de doo. You get 10,000 DC for $1 US.

I spent the next hour just mounting, connecting, testing, disconnecting, mounting, reconnecting, testing, disconnecting...

Once you're done testing, head back to a computer and pull up the GLAMOS app so you can dig into the data. You can look at the data on the GLAMOS in the field if you want, but I like big screens. On your desktop in the app, go to Analytics, select the Device, Date, Time, and Type of test, then filter and fidget and sort to your heart's delight.

The results from this test of 5 antennas were pretty cool, at least for me. I tested the HNTenna, a Laird 6 dBi, 2 eBay cheapies, and the giant 13 dBi sector antenna I used before I knew what I was doing. Here are the results.

The obvious takeaway is wrong, just FYI. I threw that 13 dBi in there just to see what would happen, knowing it would have skewed results. Remember, every 3 dB is a doubling in power, so a 13 dBi is pushing out a focused signal more than octuple (what a word!) the power of a little 3 dBi. That means it'll "win" hands down in every measure of signal strength.

I was pleased to see the HNTenna did well, and I was surprised how good at least one of the eBay cheapies was. I would've expected the Laird to do a bit better, though it definitely had the most messages received. For reference, and so you don't go out and immediately replace your antenna with a ridiculously overpowered sector, I had that Mega Sector up for a MONTH with earnings in the bottom 10% of all Helium Hotspots before I managed to tweak the settings and dial down the power significantly so it'd fall within acceptable levels. Once I did that it performed well, although now that I have the HNTenna on it it's doing just as well or better at about a third of the price and a hundreth of the install hassle.

The GLAMOS app really lets you dig around in the data, listing out how each antenna for all the gateways that witnessed it. Here's the Laird, for example:

Check out that far right column where it tells you whether or not the signal would have fallen within the current (PoCv10) RSSI/SNR ratio. That will change with the update to PoCv11. Super useful!

You can use the GLAMOS to test more than antennas; you can test locations, whether indoor or outdoor will perform better, and by how much, and how a long cable might effect your actual reach. We haven't even gotten into using it for testing sensors yet, I'll leave that for another post.

So, what antenna should you buy? I'd start by picking up a GLAMOS testing unit before I went and bought any more antennas. Learn how to use it, then test your antennas, test your locations, and deploy a smarter, better, more efficient (and more profitable) Helium Network.

So...How Does This Help Me With Providing Coverage and Earning Profit?​

Helium is a blockchain network that rewards users who provide WUPU (Wide, Unique, Proveable, and Useful) coverage. The better your WUPU coverage, the more you'll earn. Now, WUPU isn't a Helium metric, it's something I teach people about to help them understand at broad strokes how to assess a potential deployment.

If you want to have a high earning hotspot, testing the Wide and Proveable aspects of coverage is essential. Now, whether or not your coverage is Unique or Useful is something you'll need to assess in different ways. I'd start with my post on HIP 17 and scaling, then check out how to use the Network.

Rock on in your Helium glory, and best of luck to you in your deployments!

Archived Comments​

Randy Armitage - 12/8/2021​

Hey Nik I went to #mappers on the Helium Discord looking for info on how to use my Glamos to support the mapping project. Scrolled to the bottom of the pinned messages, which led to this article. While informative, the content doesn't seem to cover much of what the title hints at. Am I missing something or is the process of testing antennas very similar to generating coverage data? Thanx ?

Nik - 12/8/2021​

Hi Randy, in general, good coverage is a proxy for good earnings. It's not precise, as earnings will depend on local density and scaling, but if you want to earn HNT on Helium one of the essential aspects is knowing what coverage your location/antenna combo will provide.

Nathan - 12/16/2021​

Hey! Great article! Love all the data and very thankful for your amazing blog here! I just recently received my glamos walker (super exciting) and I am seemingly having the same issue as randy. I got it in order to contribute to the helium mapping project and after having set it up, find myself confused on whether I am actually contributing. Testing my own antennas is nice (which I'll try sometime in the future) but I can't seem to figure out A) If I'm actually providing coverage data for the network B) How to setup the glamos to automatically contribute once turned on. Any insight or hints in the right direction would be great.

Nik - 12/16/2021​

Hi Nathan, I don't think there's an auto-fire Mapper style setting on the GLAMOS. It's designed built to test a bunch of different specific spots to make sure a sensor at that spot can reach a gateway, not to continuously beacon in order to provide coverage. I'll change the name of the post, as it seems to be misleading people.

Ben - 12/25/2021​

Hey Nik, question about this assumption made in the article — “Second, you’ll want to know HOW MANY Hotspots your proposed location can be witnessed by. Since beacons & witnesses are two sides of the same coin, it’s pretty reasonable to assume that “if they can hear you, you can hear them.” I’ve just gotten and set up my miner recently, inside, stock antenna, 650 ft above the ground in a high rise overlooking the suburbs (for background). I’m actually finding that this assumption doesn’t seem to be true, in that I’m getting people witnessing my beacons for 55km+ but I don’t seem to be able to connect with anyone beyond a kilometer of me. Any ideas or thoughts? I’ve read about the principle of antenna reciprocity, and the only think I can think of is maybe the window that’s in front of the antenna is blocking really weak signals and making them impossible to distinguish from noise.

Nik - 12/26/2021​

Hi Ben, it's not technically correct, it's just a useful model to use. It's likely that many hotspots around you are not as well placed. Think about this as well; you always get to know what hotspots witnessed your beacon, but you don't always win the lottery to witness the beacons of other hotspots.

Tom - 1/12/2022​

Hey Nik, off topic here but I heard you on the Hotspot Podcast and you did a great job. My question is, you me mentioned T-Mo approaching a large hotspot fleet owner with a threat to cut them off. I could not find anything on this(articles, etc.). Is there a link you could share? Thanks as always and congrats on your Helium community Noble award. (you got my vote!) Tom

Nik - 1/12/2022​

Hi Tom, thanks! Nothing I can share on that beyond the podcast convo; the fleet owner is pretty private.

Tom - 1/12/2022​

Fully understand. Thanks.

Our pilot project is complete, and boy have we learned a ton from this one! While many are still focusing on earning HNT for Helium Hotspot deployments, the obvious move for those of us interested in longevity is actually USING the Network.

Over the course of a week, supported by Tommy and Ryan at Lonestar Tracking, Matthew at Digital Matter, Travis at Helium, and Jeremy C (@jerm on Discord), I deployed 2 off-grid Helium Hotspots high in the mountains of Utah (one at over 8,000' and one above 11,000') to track 30+ paragliders as they flew during the annual Red Rocks Fly In as well as raced during the inaugural X Red Rocks Hike & Fly race.

I've written about the prep for that here, as well as how paragliding got me into Helium. For now, let's follow along with what it looks like when you actually deploy Helium Hotspots for real world usage.

It started with the usual last minute scramble to get everything ready for a big project. The night before I was out in the shop cutting masts and prepping enclosures to make sure I had everything ready for a big week! During the past year, I've learned a bunch about getting these things out in the wild. The latest improvement I learned from a client (thanks Dave H!) was using these little tripods for a "plant it anywhere" setup that's easy to carry.

When you get where you're going, just fasten the tripods into the ground with long lag bolts and you're set!

The trackers I used were Digital Matter Oyster trackers, about 160 grams and the size of a few phones stacked on top of each other. The advantages these trackers have is that there aren't any buttons to turn off or on, the battery life is measured from weeks to years, and they're pretty rugged. Originally designed to track vehicles, they were an excellent step in the direction of tracking far less predictable things. A paraglider has the entire sky within which to move.

I arrived late Friday night into Monroe, Utah, then met up the next morning with Stacy Whitmore, president of the local flying club, CUASA. We jumped in my truck (which is pretty easy to pick out in a crowd) and headed up to place the two Helium Hotspots, one at Cove Launch, and one on top of Monroe Peak.

Cove was first up, and after a 40 minute drive up a rough road, we arrived at a truly glorious place to put a hotspot. With a view of the Sevier Valley to the north and south, it was an excellent first step.

https://youtu.be/qsoJ-\_zuxrU

As you can see in the video above, these 2 hotspots weren't the only ones providing coverage. Since pilots can get up to 18,000' (the legal limit) the trackers have a clear line of sight..everywhere. We were seeing 80+ mile sensor communication to the gateways, which is impressive!

With the gateways set up, it was time to start flying!

https://youtu.be/ijnTEm6Mrf8

As I handed out trackers to paragliders and watched their progress through the sky, a few things became clear.

First, the Network works. While the tech can be complicated and the whole thing is not yet push-a-button easy, it does work. That's rad.

Second, the deployment pattern of Hotspots becomes far more important when you start to optimize for Network coverage and not just earnings. I jumped at the first two locations because both were high and had great views. It worked, but there were plenty of coverage holes that I could've filled in with a different pattern. When I cover this event next year, I'll use 2 or 3 more hotspots and place them in a ring around the valley rather than on just one side. I'll also use Kudzu to estimate coverage, which was something I'd wanted to do but ran out of time.

Third, using vehicle trackers to track paragliders is an excellent start, but free flight pilots in general (paraglider and hang gliders) need a few options that we hadn't configured in the trackers. Here's an example of the day in the life of a tracker, from the time I handed it out in the LZ (landing zone, which is where pilots in Monroe usually meet to start the day) all the way to the end of the day when the pilot went back to their hotel.

Before going further, I want to make it clear that this was a pilot program. This is NOT what the end product of a free flight tracker will look like. The goal of this project was to see what was possible and where we needed to improve.

Most of the improvements can come from better Hotspot placement and configuration settings within the tracker. Some improvements specific to free flight will come from hardware modifications. We started off with 2 minute intervals and eventually got 'em down to 30 second intervals by the end of the week. While that pushes out more *potential* data points, if you don't have coverage from a Hotspot it doesn't matter how much data your sensor is pushing out; it won't get seen.

A bunch of things can go wrong. The interval is important; if you set it for an hour you'll have a battery life measured in years, but for a 2 hour flight you'll only get 2 data points, like this:

Here's another pilot who did that same flight but had a tracker with much shorter intervals. You can see the difference it makes!

The configuration settings presented an additional set of challenges. For paragliding, I wanted a tracker that could be found if the pilot either had an emergency and landed conscious (and able to push a button), or landed and was unconscious. These trackers were set up for long battery life, so once they stopped moving for a period of time they went to sleep. That's very useful for tracking vehicles on land, but not very useful for paragliders flying in adventure country.

Keep in mind that these trackers only report their positions if they can communicate with a Hotspot. No Hotspot, no comms.

Going to sleep once movement has stopped presents the issue of not being able to be found if a pilot crashes and is unconscious or just not able to move. The solutions for solving that could be creating an on/off button for the tracker so that you can conserve battery at home, when you don't need to be tracked, but push out signals every 2 minutes when you go flying.

The rad aspect of creating off grid Helium Hotspots is that you could put a Hotspot in a helicopter and fly a search pattern with a very wide "bubble" of coverage. As long as trackers are on and pinging, you're very likely to find them. This creates another potential solution for "crash detection" in trackers where they'd continue to ping at 1 or 2 minute intervals if they detected a sudden stopping of movement.

Finally, this project brought to light the usefulness of an "emergency" button, just like you have on an inReach mini.

You might ask, "What's the point of having another device that does the same thing?" Well, there are three good reasons. First, when working in high consequence environments, a basic rule of safety is "Two is one and one is none." Having a backup can be the difference between being found within hours of a crash and not being found for days.

Second, because these two devices work using different technologies, they offer a wider spectrum of "findability." While an inReach can be found by communicating with satellites, if it's deep in a canyon and doesn't have a clear "view" of a satellite, it becomes less useful. A LoRa tracker, on the other hand, puts out an omnidirectional beacon at a minimum range of 60 meters in dense brush and a max range of 80+ miles with clear line of sight. A helo carrying a mobile Helium-compatible Hotspot can fly around and provide a bubble of fairly focused coverage, greatly speeding up the tracking possibilities.

Third, as gruesome as it sounds, if you auger in and hit hard, the impact is likely to break not only your bones but also the electronic tracking devices you're carrying. If those electronic devices are on opposite sides of your body, it is more likely that at least one of them will not bear the full force of the impact and will remain trackable. I know, ugly and terrible, but also practical.

Practicality is the watchword here. The long term health of the Network is based upon the usability of it. Projects like these, where we put sensors and gateways (Hotspots) out into the wild and see how they do, go a long way towards all of us leaning how to use this fantastically cool technology to improve our lives.

If you'd like to see the presentation I gave at the 2021 Red Rocks Fly In about Helium for paragliders, here it is:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MsNQa0fL0WI

My entire involvement with Helium started with a lost paraglider, but finding lost paragliders is just a beginning. I am super pumped to be on this journey and to share as much as I can with you, so that together we can build a superbly useful tool for whatever problem you want to solve. Here's to safe flying, to useful Networks, and to advancing our knowledge and understanding that this giant new realm of IoT opportunity available to us all.

To life!

Resources​

Feel free to reach out to any of these companies for help with your projects, and of course, tell 'em the Gristle King sent ya! :)

Lonestar Tracking - Based out of Texas, Lonestar makes it super easy to buy devices and start tracking whatever you'd like.

Digital Matter devices

Helium Network

CUASA - Central Utah Air Sports Association - If you have hotspots you want to place off grid, this crew is way open to having you put them up on high sites around the Sevier Valley. Reach out to Stacy or Jeff to see if you can work with them.

If you're looking for work in the Helium ecosystem, please check out this rad project I'm a part of called Helium Jobs. You can post and find jobs there, help support the ecosystem by making it easier to connect professionally, and let the world know that YOU exist and want to help contribute within the Network. Rock on!

Archived Comments​

Mario - 10/10/2021​

Inspiring. Dreaming of the day when I finish setting up my helium miners (for good) and start to think off, how can I, using Helium network, make other people's life easier/better. :)

Joseph Campos - 10/12/2021​

Great job Nik! Your passion shows and it is awesome that it is aligned with helping keep people safe. Good job in the presentation video, you do a good job of explaining what can be a complicated subject sticking to the "why" the group would care.

Nik - 10/12/2021​

Thanks Joseph, much appreciated!

Reports From The Field: Tracking With Helium - Gristle King - A Guide to Helium - 11/2/2021​

[…] up was to pro­vide cus­tom track­ing for race par­tic­i­pants. Hav­ing recent­ly done the very first paraglid­ing track­ing event up in Utah, for the X Red Rocks race, I man­aged to avoid a few mis­takes, repeat a few more, and learn a […]

Precios Louzado - 11/8/2021​

great job. Is it possible to integrate 3rd party appliances on helium devices as a hub for transacting on the blockchain.

Nik - 11/8/2021​

You should be able to use just about any sensor. Helium maintains a list of "Helium ready" ones here.

Cody - 5/5/2022​

You are doing incredible work Nik. Appreciate you sharing.

Nik - 5/6/2022​

Thanks Cody!

I got into Helium accidentally. I was looking for a way to find and communicate with other paragliders out back of beyond. I had participated in a Search and Rescue for a well known paraglider out in remote Nevada at the end of summer 2020.

The missing paraglider pilot (James Johnston, aka Kiwi) had GPS and a cell phone, and it still took hundreds of people, including hunters, hikers, bike riders, ATV mounted search parties, planes, helicopters, drones, and satellite imagery 30 days to find him. Here's a 20 minute presentation on just the crowd-source satellite imagery side.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UgtrcyWreE

I flew up with my friend David Hunt in his small plane to help with the aerial search. We left early in the morning on the third day after Kiwi was reported missing and it became clear that the more people searching, the better.

We got bumped around in turbulent Nevada desert air for a few days before flying back to San Diego without having found the missing pilot. For almost the entire journey, David and I talked about better options for being found. Should we have a backup GPS, or was there another device or technology that could be useful? We found Recco Reflectors, which are useful if a local SAR crew has a helicopter with the technology, but...not many crews in the US have that.

Then another paraglider pilot and buddy of mine, Zach Armstrong, stumbled across this thing called LoRa. LoRa stands for LOng RAnge, and is the radio protocol used by Helium. As we searched around the internet for more on LoRa, we found two cool options. One was Meshtastic, a system designed by a paraglider that used LoRa to form mesh groups of communications nets. You and your buddies can all talk to each other across long distances using devices you build.

We built a couple devices and tested 'em out, thinking of them as a good option, but to be honest, pretty fiddly.

I found a way to 3D print cases locally, made a couple more devices and handed out my extras to local pilots to test while we flew in the mountains. They weren't easy to use unless you really like to tinker. Not everyone does.

Then I stumbled on Helium. It came up when you looked for "LoRa" back in August 2020 on the Googs. I'd been involved with crypto before, so I wasn't afraid of it and didn't think it was a scam. I saw a Helium "Hotspot" down the street from my house earning a tremendous amount of HNT, or Helium Network Tokens. That caught my attention. I got onto the Helium Discord back when you could read through every thread from the start in about a week and a half, and did just that.

Serendipitously, Helium opened up a DIY program at about the same time, where you could buy the parts to make your own Helium Hotspot and onboard it onto the Network. Along with my buddy TJ Ferrara, we applied for and received "alpha codes", then dug into how to actually use the things.

Here's TJ getting our first one online.

Here's TJ up on my roof, putting the finishing cable management touches on that first miner. We were so pumped to have one up and running!

Of course, I had to constantly tinker with it (it was all new and exciting), and the pole was too much for me to manage safely by myself, so I hooked my wife Lee up to the pole with a climbing harness and rope, and she patiently belayed the pole as I tilted it up and down to dial in the hotspot and antenna at the top. She's seen my many phases of crazy, and she gamely went along with this one.

Ok, so that got us into Helium, but how does that relate to paragliding?

Well, with our first hotspot done, I set my sights on getting an antenna way out in the mountains near my favorite paragliding spot. It'd provide us a way to test Helium Network coverage and see if we could use trackers to, well, track paragliders.

We started with Helium Tabs, but those left something to be desired. Form factor = cool, Performance = Not so much. I put one on my new bike and it managed to stop tracking within about a day.

I started ordering parts to build a giant off grid setup. I was so excited about the whole thing I'd send blow-by-blow videos to my Dad.

https://youtu.be/whRloJZ\_9RE

Guided by Paul over at Tourmaline Wireless, who drilled the holes and walked me through the layout, I got the first hotspot put together and ready to hike in. Here's Paul sussing out the best interior setup in his shop.

I got permission to place the thing on a mountain the backcountry of San Diego, then TJ & I hiked in 60+ lb backpacks filled with gear and set the thing up. Fun, and unfun. It was a giant antenna that I didn't need, plus more solar panel and battery than was necessary, but it was my first one. I ended up having to dial the antenna gain down with software, a project that introduced to some really cool and competent people (looking at you, @jerm on Discord), and it taught me a lot about what you actually want in an antenna vs what looks cool.

With the off grid hotspot in place and providing coverage from the Mexican border up to north of Los Angeles, I figured we could start testing tracking, but I needed more rugged tracking devices. I turned to Lonestar Tracking and bought a few Digital Matter Oysters from them along with a tracking subscription plan.

I handed out the devices to local paragliders, and we tested them. They worked (I've written about these tests over here.)

So that brings us now, October 2021, a year after the Kiwi SAR, to the Red Rocks Fly In and the XRed Rocks. The Fly In is an annual gathering of paragliding and hang gliding pilots, over 300 of us! It happens up in Monroe, Utah, and is a week of sharing the skies with other free flight enthusiasts. This year, there's something new: The X Red Rocks.

X Red Rocks (XRR) is a paragliding "hike and fly" race organized by one of my free flight heroes, Gavin McClurg. Gavin has participated in the super gnarly hike and fly race called the The Red Bull X Alps, held in (you guessed it) the Alps. He wanted to share that joy (and the joy of type 2 and 3 fun) with the rest of us back here in the US, so he put together the XRR.

In fact, it was Gavin's movie, The Rocky Mountains Traverse, that got me into paragliding back in 2016.

Unlike the month long journey that Gavin went on, the XRR is a 3 day event where, each day you hike up into the mountains to a launch with your paraglider, unpack, unfold, and launch off the mountain, fly as far as you can and land, then pack up, hike up, unpack, unfold, and launch again until you've finished whatever the day's task is.

Of course, I registered for it. :)

I wanted to participate, but I also wanted to combine business and pleasure, and to give back to both my free flight (paraglider and hang glider) community as well as showcase what Helium could do.

The way this event is set up is basically the reason I got into Helium; flying in remote to semi-remote areas without perfect cell coverage.

I wanted a way for my paragliding community to have a third option, maybe a last chance, after GPS & cell phones, to be tracked in case we got lost. I know that LoRa isn't a magic pill, and that it won't replace a Garmin inReach Mini with a global constellation of satellites, or telcos with their giant cell tower sites everywhere.

Still, it's a way for regular people, just like you and me, to deploy a wireless network that provides actual use. That is (pardon my language) fucking radical. I love radical things.

So, with this in mind, I rallied the troops. I called Tommy at Lonestar, Matthew at Digital Matter, talked with the Helium crew about what I wanted to do and why, and all of them very generously volunteered to donate time, materials, and expertise to the project.

I'll be bringing up 2 of my off grid hotspots, Helium is sending me a few of the off grid setups that Paul built for them as well as a bunch of trackers, Lonestar is covering tracking, and Digital Matter is providing enough trackers to cover all the rest of the pilots. If YOU want to be involved in some way, reach out!

I'll be driving up Friday the 24th of September and will spend the weekend setting up Helium Hotspots in the mountains around Monroe. On Tuesday the 28th I'll be giving a presentation on Helium to my paragliding community up in Richfield, UT (8 pm, swing on by!) and on Thursday the XRR kicks off. Ryan from Lonestar and Travis from Helium are coming up to help everything run smoothly and to answer questions, and hopefully to help convince free flight clubs that wherever we have a launch, we should probably add a Helium compatible hotspot to it.

I would love for you to follow along on the journey as we hike, fly, race, and use the Helium Network to demonstrate what a small, committed group of people can actually do. If you're in Utah and want to come help out with setup, troubleshooting, lending us a Helium Hotspot, or just participating in a joyous effort, please reach out or just post to comments.

Come along for the ride!

Archived Comments​

Richard Ogden - 9/24/2021​

Life is for living ! Well done fella.

Derek Clair - 9/24/2021​

I am in Riverton (Salt Lake), and would actually be very interested in hearing/talking all the Helium things; willing to make the drive too if you’ll have me. What is the venue? Or an address, I’m there!

Nik - 9/24/2021​

Hi Derek, 8:00 PM. Tuesday, Monroe City Park (Across from Bullies) Main St. Monroe.

FRED GARNER - 9/25/2021​

Hi Guys I am in I have been trying to do just what you are going with Helium I am an aircraft and anything that flies on the airstreams I have track aircraft use ADS-b Sillite Radar in and out of airports and I and also a stock that misses with Crypto and that is how I got into Helium hots I am interested in helping people that are doing what they love and I want to help them stay safe would love to help that is all I do is track planes and would to help there is more to this whole thing. use my email I would love to talk. You every here of Mike Patty, Steve Fosit he died doing what he loved and they never found Him. I will do what I can do I have 3 gigs of bandwidth Please get back to me. FRED GARNER

Darin Johnson - 9/27/2021​

I'm kinda like you. I found Helium by accident. I was watching videos on mining cryptocurrency, and one came up along the lines of "plug this box in and make money." Another one said before you get into mining something, do your research. What's the usage, is it covered by something already established, etc? So I watch more videos, and while some are talking about "optimum antenna placement" and the like, NONE are talking about what Helium can DO!!! So I keep looking around and when I finally found it, IT BLEW MY (language) FUCKING MIND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Apple's AirTag just came out a few months ago and it's claim to fame is that other user's phones can help you locate your lost things. Imagine if Google, or Tile, or another company came out with a platform agnostic tracker that uses the Helium Network. All Helium needs is a little push, the right company making something that shows off the power of the network and it will absolutely EXPLODE!!!! I want to be there, I want to be part of this!!!!!!!

G - 10/6/2021​

Hi Nik, Can you please give a reasonable explanation to the best of your knowledge how is this possible. And if so can your expertise replicate it? Thanks! G https://explorer.helium.com/hotspots/11ZMRjPTazmb9Gf2s4qpZCW5yEd9Bb1gbSUhGGiobxjDAfxTjve

Nik - 10/6/2021​

Probably cheating. I can't/won't replicate cheating. :)

Got questions about what kind of cable you should use to connect your Helium hotspot to your antenna? Want a Helium-specific cable loss table?

You're not alone! Lots of folks want to know if they should use LMR 240 or 400 or 900, or how long it can be, or if they should use the cable that came with their cheap-o eBay antenna.

In order to answer that, I'm going to walk you through how the whole thing works. That way, instead of asking me if your XX antenna with YY feet of ZZ cable will work, you'll know how to calculate the answer.

First, let's talk about the precise but confusing terminology in the land of RF (Radio Frequency). Well, if you want to just skip to the cable loss tables, go here.

You'll commonly see dB (decibel), dBm (decibel milliWatt), and dBi (decibel isotropic) thrown around, as well as dBm, EIRP, ERP, FSL, and others. Sheesh, that's a lot!

We'll start with dB, which stands for "Decibel". A decibel is the difference between two signal levels. RF engineers (and the rest of us) use it to add or subtract the effect of cables (or other "system devices") on signal strength.

dB are logarithmic: Every time you add 3 dB of gain, you double to the signal level. Every time you halve power, you subtract 3 dB. That means a 3 dBi antenna is doubling your emitted power over a zero gain antenna! But wait...that can't be right, can it? Antennas don't "add" energy.

As I've covered in other blog posts, antennas focus and shape energy. They don't add energy. It's kind of like a garden hose sprayer with multiple spray patterns. The water pressure going into the nozzle doesn't change, but as you switch from "mist" to "shower" to "stream", your emitted pattern changes.

That pattern change, and the resulting focus and range, is measured in dBi (decibel isotropic).

Ok, it's about to get a little more confusing, but I promise you can understand this.

"Isotropic" refers to having the same energy value in all directions. It's the idea that an antenna could emit a perfectly shaped "globe" of energy. For various reasons, it's impossible to build an isotropic antenna. Every antenna in the real world emits energy in slightly uneven patterns.

Still, RF engineers use a perfect 0 dBi as a reference point. As you go up in gain (the dBi goes from 0 to 1 to 3 to...13), the pattern becomes less and less globe-like and more focused in a single direction & plane.

That brings us to EIRP, or Effective Isotropic Radiated Power. This is a measure of the radiated power coming out of an antenna in the direction of its largest lobe. What's a lobe? Let me show you:

Why is that max lobe energy measure of EIRP important? Because that's what regulatory agencies (like the FCC) use to measure the power coming out of an antenna.

In the US on the 915 MHz frequency we use, the FCC limit for EIRP is 36. You get the EIRP by adding the transmitted power in dBm (what gets fed into the antenna) to the antenna gain in dBi.

Transmitted power is measured in dBm, or decibel milliwatts. The max transmit power we can use in US Helium Hotspots is 30 dBm, or 1 watt. For Euros, the max transmit power for uplinks is 14 dBm. You can read more on this here, in the LoRa docs. I'm US based, so we'll stick with the US numbers for this article.

The transmitter used in a US Helium Hotspot pushes out 27 dBm. The stock antenna shipped with the original Helium Hotspot was a 3 dBi Antenna gain.

That gives us a total EIRP of 27 dBm + 3 dBi = 30 dBm

If you're US based and do the math, you're now realizing why a 9 dBi antenna is the limit for your Helium Hotspot deployments. 27 dBm + 9 dBi = 36 dBm, or the max allowable EIRP.

But wait, wait, wait, Nik. I thought this post was about cable loss? Why are we talking about antennas and gain? Well, when you pass energy through a cable, you lose some of it. Different cables lose energy at different rates, usually measured as dB per distance. In general, thicker cables lose less, and thinner cables lose more.

Cable loss effects EIRP, because remember, EIRP is a measure of what is "fed into the antenna". So:

EIRP = Transmitter power (dBm) - Cable loss (dB) + Antenna Gain (dBi)

This is why you can have a 9 dBi antenna with lots of valid witnesses if you have cable loss that brings your EIRP down to what Helium considers "normal" limits.

Before we get to the cable loss table, let's cover one more term that gets thrown about, which is FSPL, or Free-Space Path Loss. This is the decrease ("attenuation" for the RF nerds) in radio signal power over distance. FSPL is important in Helium because it's one of the factors the blockchain uses to determine if the signal strength of any beacon is "out of bounds".

FSPL is used to combat gaming. If you've got 10 hotspots in your closet (remember Modesto?), you can "say" they're deployed in a perfect grid pattern, but using FSPL to calculate the signal strength that should be reported is one way to make sure they're actually, say, 800 meters apart and not all stacked on top of each other.

You can calculate FSPL here. Here's what that might look like for 2 hotspots 50 km apart with clear line of sight, both using 3 dBi antennas:

How would you know if that's within limits?

Let's do this! Remember that your hotspot pushed out 27 dBm. Let's imagine you're not using any cables, so cable loss is 0.

We've already accounted for the gain using the calculator, so we just subtract the FSPL from the transmitted power (27 dBm - 119.4 dB) to get -92.4 dB.

That's a signal strength within normal limits. For Helium hotspots in the US, most common signal strengths are (generally) between -90 and -122, though it can go higher or lower, down to -130 in some instances. Now, there are some other measures, both public and private, that Helium uses to combat gaming when assessing a tx/rx receipt, but these are the basics.

So, with all that as background, here's your cable loss table. Use your transmitter power minus the cable loss plus your antenna gain to get your EIRP, and make sure that number is 36 dBm or below.

You can get as detailed as you want, but I'd recommend not getting too wrapped up about your EIRP to the thousandth dBm.

[ninja_tables id="1782"]

Finally, one thing to think about is this: Having more power come out of your antenna isn't always a good thing. An effective way to plan your EIRP is to go after the LOWEST number you think you can get away with, say, 30 or lower. LoRa is already pretty darn capable, so "extending the range" with antenna gain can be pointless. I mean, I've seen a 3 dBi antenna be witnessed 200 km away. That antenna does a way better job of hitting lots of local hotspots than a higher gain would, in large part because of the effective pattern it has. Higher dBi doesn't always mean "useful longer range" (or greater HNT earnings). Just something to think about.

Rock on!

References & Resources​

• Understanding Decibels & Their Use in Radio Systems - YDI Wireless
• Free Space Path Loss Calculator
• FCC Rules for ISM Bands
• LoRa - Docs

Archived Comments​

Kerry Prudhomme - 6/15/2021​

O K I'm a little confused. My first hotspot will be at my home. I live in a relatively flat area. I have tall trees about 50 - 100 feet from my house. I plan to use an 8 DBI antenna. I could place the hotspot within 20' of the antenna. Should I purchase an outdoor enclosure for the bobcat miner to reduce the amount of cable between the miner and the antenna. Is the 8 DBI antenna Ok in my situation?

Nik - 6/15/2021​

Hi Kerry, I always aim to reduce the cable length between miner & antenna. You don't *have* to, it's just a good idea. Your 8 dBi antenna will probably be fine. Does that help clear it up?

Kerry Prudhomme - 6/16/2021​

Thank you. I think I will purchase the enclosures. I will also need to purchase a short length of cable for each.

Dan Carare - 6/17/2021​

Hi! So the best thing to do is to buy the most short cable with highest LMR 600, considering will be short distance between hit spot and antenna location ) Is this correct? Shir cable, maximum LMR Right?

Nik - 6/17/2021​

Technically, yes. Practically, you don't need anything beyond LMR400 for most instances, and the 600 & 900 are thick and more difficult to work with.

scott dieken - 6/19/2021​

Hey, could you please add the LMR900 cable to your chart. I do not understand why people would cheap out on their cables. I was making 2 grand a month on a rak miner with the factory provided rak antenna on an 8ft lmr-400 ft cable. I tried moving it up 25 feet with a 50 ft lmr-400 cable and was making zero dollars a day. If you can make one or two grand a month why buy anything but the very best cable? Then you don't even need these high dbi antennas. Please let me know if you have any good suppliers for lmr-900 cables. It wouldn't matter to me if the cable was $500 or $1000.

Nik - 6/20/2021​

Hi Scott, sure, we can add LMR900.

Johnny - 6/26/2021​

First, awesome stuff Nik. Thank you for sharing. Second, any links to pre-made cables you’d recommend and/or to tool and connectors that most easily make for reliable connections. Again, thank you.

Nik - 6/26/2021​

Thanks Johnny. I'd use USACoax for cables. You definitely can make your own, but it's more expensive unless you're making a bunch, and even then you're probably still breaking even.

Evangelos Foutris - 7/1/2021​

Hello Nik, thanks for the info! 1) You state one place that the max EIRP in US is 30 dBm but then elsewhere say 36 dBm. Can you clarify? 2) Is loss only from the antenna to the miner or also from the miner to the router (ethernet)?

Nik - 7/1/2021​

Hmm, let me know where I screwed that up. For clarification: Max transmit power fed to the antenna is 30 dBm. Max EIRP (the focusing of that power) is 36 dBm. Does that make sense? More on that here.

scott dieken - 7/4/2021​

if you wanted to make a longer cable run like 100ft using the lmr-600 could you offset some of the power loss using some kind of booster?

Nik - 7/4/2021​

I haven’t seen that work well. Usually better off to figure out how to run long Ethernet and short antenna cable.

Natko Jankovi? - 7/9/2021​

Please can you explain me is there any gain for those hotspots for Emrit which are all set to 1,2dBi and 0m vs. private which are adjusted to real values? No need to say that may hosts modify antenna and don't place hotspots on the ground level.. Are there any consequences for Emrit for this falsely setting gor thousends hotspots around the globe from Helium?

Devon - 7/9/2021​

Hi Natko those settings (Antenna Height/Antenna Gain) are not currently active, and no there will never be penalizations for not having the proper parameters set. That will be utilized to advance the network specifications further. For now it is not active, and again even when it is active you will NOT need to have to settings match your system. It will only be in place to improve YOUR performance.

Nik - 7/9/2021​

The current antenna & elevation settings in the app don't have any bearing on your RSSI/SNR values (as far as I know.). Shouldn't be an issue.

scott - 7/9/2021​

hey nik your previous comment I haven’t seen that work well. Usually better off to figure out how to run Kong Ethernet and short antenna cable. I am not familiar with Kong Ethernet, and a google search really did not bring anything up. For those of us who have not bought outdoor units with POE could you please link to where I can find more info on Kong Internet. P.S. I did end up buying one of those HNTenna so we will see how much improvement I get next week when it arrives and I can get it installed.

Nik - 7/9/2021​

Whoops, was typing so fast I put "Kong" instead of "long". Should be "long ethernet". :)

Helium Hotspots & EMF - One Man's Search - 7/12/2021​

[…] those of you who’ve read the Cable Loss & EIRP post, you’ll remem­ber that the most pow­er­ful hotspots (Amer­i­can hotspots) blast out a […]

scott - 7/15/2021​

what is the difference between kmr-400 and lmr-400

Nik - 7/15/2021​

They look similar to me, the KMR claims to be more flexible. I haven't used it.

Michael Kozlowski - 7/17/2021​

Hey there, I read that certain materials from placing an antenna indoors can cause dbi loss. I read that plywood can cause 4-6 dbi loss and that high efficiency windows could sometimes cause up to a 40dbi loss, ans paired with a bug screen, even worse! So my question being. If I were to mount say a 10dbi antenna inside my attic, would I be transmitting somewhere between 4-6 dbi, and retain the local vertical reach visibility benefits of having a 4-5.8 dbi antenna versus a 8-10dbi antenna which is more horizontal reaching? Thanks! I currently have a few miners setup with the stock 4dbi antenna next to windows but wondering if a 8-10dbi antenna in the attic would be better.

Nik - 7/17/2021​

Hi Michael, good question. If it's in your attic it'll go through your roof just fine. I'd probably stick with a 6 dBi or lower, but the answer is always to test 'em out. :)

Valeri - 7/24/2021​

Hi Nik, If I use 5.8dBi antenna and my cable length results in 2.8dBi loss would that mean that the performance (the radiation pattern and the ERP) of that antenna (5.8dBi - 2.8dBi in losses = 3dBi) and that of an 3dBi antenna without any cable extension would be the same (because they have the 3dBi gain)?

Nik - 7/24/2021​

Nope. The radiation patterns are different for different antennas. A drop in power doesn't change the pattern of radiated power.

Richmond Mcfarland - 8/2/2021​

How do I invest in the cryptocurrency, Helium?

Richmond Mcfarland - 8/2/2021​

What do I need to do to invest in Helium, a cryptocurrency? I know its symbol is HNT, But I don't know to access it and buy some of it.

Richmond Mcfarland - 8/2/2021​

Can I get an answer to how to invest in HNT

Nik - 8/2/2021​

Look for cryptocurrency exchanges that list it. Binance.us and Bilaxy are two you can look at.

Nik - 8/2/2021​

Sure. Just wait a bit, dawg. There's only one guy running this site. :) You'll probably get more information faster over on the Helium Trading Discord.

Brad - 8/3/2021​

Hey Nik, I am looking at this chart and I think I need help with the math. I have a 5.8 Dbi antenna with 30' of LMR400. So, I am guestimating that is about a loss of 1 dB. But how do I calculate that out since dB and Dbi are different. 36 + 5.8 - ?(dB loss)? = ??? Also I pontificate the following: Is there math that makes an 8Dbi as effective as a 5.8, just by running longer cable? I guess the pattern doesn't change for the antenna, but it would kill the distance, effectively making the widest point of coverage, closer to you, correct or no?

Nik - 8/3/2021​

Hi Brad, 30' of LMR400 will give you 1.17 dB of loss (3.9 dBi loss for 100', so 3.9 x 30%). dB = decibel (relative) and dBi = decibel isotropic (measured against an absolute). It's confusing, I get it. For the purposes of this equation you can add & subtract them without conversion. Re. making an antenna more "effective", I'm not sure I follow. You'll be putting less power through the same pattern as far as I know. I'd take the 5.8 over the 8 in pretty much every circumstance we'll have for Helium. :)

Brad - 8/4/2021​

Thanks Nik, so basically, because of the cable length, I now have a 4.63 dBi antenna... For the "effective" question, I was thinking that upsizing the antenna to an 8 dBi instead of the 5.8 dBi would make up for the cable loss. Where it gets a little fuzzy for me is that an 8 dBi has a more laser-like pattern with less coverage close by. So, would the reduction in the dBI from the cable loss change the pattern to be more like the 5.8 or would it stay very narrow and just be a weaker signal?

Nik - 8/4/2021​

Not really re. having an 4.63 dBi antenna. You have an antenna emitting at a certain pattern with a reduction in strength along that pattern equal to the cable/connection loss. Minor detail, but just to be clear. :) I'd keep it at a 5.8. LoRa has so much dang range anyway (4 dBi antennas ROUTINELY witness over 100 miles away) that this constant focus on whether or not an antenna is strong enough is misplaced.

Can I Get A Witness? - One Man's Search - 8/4/2021​

[…] Every­one (in the US, and in most coun­tries) sell­ing a radio device has to have it cer­ti­fied by some nation­al body. In the US, that body is the FCC. One of the things they check dur­ing cer­ti­fi­ca­tion is that your device does­n’t break any emis­sion-strength rules (tech­ni­cal­ly EIRP, more on that here.) […]

Dave - 8/7/2021​

For the case of a miner in an attic, any thoughts on 8 vs 5.8/6 dbi antenna? Rokland says that the 8 dbi antenna has a 25 vertical beam width. That still seems pretty wide, e.g. at 300m, the lower bound should be ~66m. So why would one go for the 6 dbi unless you live on a mountain?

Nik - 8/8/2021​

Hi Dave, I aim for lower dBi unless there's a mitigating factor. From your situation (in the attic) the 8 dBi will probably work better, but as always with RF, you've got to test it. Please keep me posted on how it goes!

Michael - 8/13/2021​

Hi Nik, I'm a bit confused. I generally understand what this post is saying but I'm confused with the different cable types. I see that my antenna has an RP-SMA Male connector and my Bobcat Miner 300 hotspot has an RP-SMA Female connector. I've seen "N-Male" thrown around on different websites, along with LMR-400. I assume I would need a cable with the RP-SMA Male + RP-SMA Female ends. However, when I do a search for LMR-400 with those connectors, the results don't look anything like what I'd need. I'm looking for a 2 or 3 foot cable and was wondering if you could send me a link of where to buy the cable I'd need?

scott dieken - 8/13/2021​

could you compare these lmr cable types with the pulsar cable listed on rak for dbi loss? https://store.rakwireless.com/products/pulsar-cable-rak9731-rak9733?variant=39677580968134

Nik - 8/13/2021​

Yep, head to USACoax. If they don't have what you want on their "Helium" offerings, look for their standard LMR400 or just call them. Their phone customer service is knowledgeable. Tell 'em Gristleking sent ya; they'll probably have no idea what you're talking about, but it'll be funny. :). Oh, and if you want to see what an N-male looks like, go here and scroll down.

Michael Johnson - 8/13/2021​

Thanks Nik! I appreciate your sense of humor along with valuable information. I'll take a look at usacoax.com and reach back out on here if I still have questions. I might end up calling their customer service and tell 'em you sent me, for a good laugh too LOL

Nik - 8/13/2021​

Hi Scott, use loss per distance to compare. For example on the page you linked, 16.4 feet has a loss of .9 dB on the Pulsar at 902-930 MHz. Check it against LMR over here (which is all 915 centered), where you'll see that LMR400 (for example) has a loss of .8 dB at 20 feet.

Brent - 8/13/2021​

Hi Nik, If I needed 50ft of cable from the antenna to the miner is LMR 400 good enough or should I go with something higher like LMR 600 Thank you for all your awesome posts!

Nik - 8/14/2021​

Hi Brent, it depends on the gain of the antenna. At 50' you'll probably want a 5-8 dBi gain antenna to offset cable loss.

Tom - 8/16/2021​

Hi Nik, I got a RAK V1 and a Parkey Labs 5.8dbi antenna (link: https://shop.parleylabs.com/collections/antennas/products/5-8dbi-fiberglass-antenna-for-hnt-helium-hotspots-lorawan-us915-gray). I am on usacoax.com building a custom cable (link: https://usacoax.com/custom/custom-helium-lmr-400uf-ultraflex-cable-build-530.html) But I am not familiar with the terminologies of the cables. It is asking for which connection type should it be on CONNECTOR 1 (HOTSPOT SIDE) (options: no connector or RP-SMA male for $5 extra) and which one whould be on CONNECTOR 2 (options: no connector, N male, N female, N female-bulkhead or RP-SMA female (stock antenna extension)). Each one for extra $5. I need some 30" of cable from the top of my chminey until the basement, where the hotpost will stay. Can you please help me to determine which types of connections the cable should have? Thank you!

Charlie - 8/18/2021​

Hi Nik, I got a 8dbi antenna on my roof 35ft high with 20ft of Lmr400. That is not much power loss. Anyway, on a few rare occasions at 7:30pm I reached 4x as many witness as normal in different directions 120km away in disco mode! I was ecstatic! However, I was never able to duplicate this again in discovery mode or real world. Any suggestions of what this might mean? Should I try turning my 8dbi antenna or changing to a 5.8dbi to widen the beam. Right now, my only witnesses are over 30km away. Thx

Chip05@me.com - 8/18/2021​

Hey Nic, why does it seem like at night disco mode performs better! Is there a best time to run disco mode to get “Max effect” Thx Charlie

Nik - 8/18/2021​

Hey Charlie, good question; the ham radio guys love this kind of stuff. I don't know about a "best time"; what you're aiming for with Disco is to get a rough approximation of how many witnesses your miner will have. Day or night obvi make a difference, but since your miner runs day & night it's probably worth it to check both, then see how that lines up with actual results.

Nik - 8/18/2021​

Are your nearest hotspots 30 km away, or just your nearest witnesses?

Nik - 8/18/2021​

Hi Tom, check out this page on cable connectors, that should help you sort it out. I usually write it down; that helps me clear it all up. "Bulkhead" connectors are extra long, to go through a (thin) wall, like a plastic enclosure; you probably don't need that.

SS Shah - 8/18/2021​

Learning a lot from this site - I purchased the HNTenna 3 dbi outdoor antenna that you have recommended elsewhere, but will need to run approximately a 25 foot cable. It seems like this would be approximately 1 dbi loss per your table (if LMR 400). If I'm understanding correctly, this would bring the power from 30 dbi (27 + 3) down to 29 dbi (27 + 3 - 1) which seems like it would still be ok. Does this sound reasonable, or do I need a higher gain antenna to offset? I live in a suburb approximately 15 miles away from a very large city, which is why I was hoping to use the lower gain antenna. Thanks!

Nik - 8/18/2021​

Totally reasonable, please let me know how it goes SS!

Scott Dieken - 8/19/2021​

Nik Do you have any slightly higher gain antennas you recommend than the 3dbi. If I need to run a long cable like 50ft, a 3dbi just isn't enough to overcome the line loss. (I think) I have a 3dbi antenna doing very well right now on a short cable of 10ft but when it was higher on a 50ft cable it wasn't doing well at all.

Nik - 8/19/2021​

Hi Scott, try the RAK 5.8, people seem to get good results with those.

alan pearson - 8/22/2021​

Could you use a RF reflective metal, and place it next to your Omni-directional antenna to strengthen signal in a specific direction?

Nik - 8/23/2021​

Hi Alan, sure, you're making a homemade sector antenna when you do that. It'd work, though maybe not very efficiently depending on design.

John Wilchynski - 8/27/2021​

Hello Nic I live out in the boonies Florida. My nearest hotspot is 32km away. I have three Bobcat 300 units spread out in the area to form a network. We have many tall pine trees all over. What size towers should be used? I have access to 50 foot tv masts. Was thinking of 50 foot towers with 8dbi antennas. Is higher better? But then long cable runs. What do you suggest? Thank you.

Nik - 8/27/2021​

Hi John, The higher the better in Florida; those pines are no joke! An 8 dBi at the end of a 50' cable should be fine if it's 50' up. Very tough environment for LoRa to go long distances.

Mike - 9/8/2021​

I have a question about this statement: "That’s a signal strength within normal limits. For Helium hotspots in the US, that valid signal strength is (generally) between ?90 and ?122, though it can go down to ?130 in some instances." I'm not sure what this means but if this range is something to strive for, it means you actually want more cable loss. I ran thru the calculators and if my hotspot puts out 27dbm and my free space path loss is fairly low - for instance 3dbi antennas at both ends and the distance is only between 1 and 3 kilometers, the loss is 95db (at 3km). 27 -95 is -68 so if you want to be between -90 and -122, wouldn't you want to introduce more loss with a thinner cable? (LMR195 at 100 feet) Even with 10 more db of loss from the cable I'm still only at -78 which is not within the range. Or maybe I don't understand the comment about the range. Can you explain that?

Nik - 9/8/2021​

Hey Mike, calcs look good. I'll pull the word "valid" from the post, as it's not quite accurate. Good catch! I should have said "most common". If you're running 2 x 3 dBi antennas, you are very unlikely to run afoul of any anti-gaming rules. While signal strengths are generally between -90 and -130, I've seen 'em be valid at stronger levels, although with current rules the SNR can be too high and invalidate the whole thing. In fact, SNR (at least for PoCv10) is the real problem, and a part of what I believe they're pulling out in PoCv11.

Mike - 9/9/2021​

Nik, thanks for answering so quickly. So is all the hype about needing really low-loss cables overstated? In my case, I will need a 75 foot run. I don't need to hit hotspots 50 km away. However, there are a few at between 10km and 15km that I'd like to hit but I have plenty that are fairly close to me (1 to 5km). Also Vision shows that I have good line of sight for many of these including the 10km and 15km distant hotspots. So if I have the 75ft run of let's say LMR195 and have roughly 8db of loss and the free space path loss at 15km is 109, then 27 - 8 - 109 = -90 which is somewhat ideal based on your numbers but if it happens to be a little stronger that won't be a problem. For instance, right now, my little 3dbi antenna (direct connected indoors next to a sliding glass door) is solidly hitting a hotspot 8km away with an 8dbi antenna (on a 30 meter mast). The calculated signal strength is -71 and I'm getting plenty more rewards since he got started up. So again, is all the hype about needing the least cable just hype? When I mentioned a 75foot run on one of the Discord channels, I got a lot of people saying I was out of luck unless I got LMR900. Not sure I believe that. Thoughts?

Nik - 9/9/2021​

Probably a lot more hype than anything else. "Needing" LMR900 is way overkill. 75' of LMR195 is on the low side for a 3 dBi antenna, but if your calcs are putting you well within acceptable levels you're probably fine. Please keep me posted on how it turns out!

Thing - 9/21/2021​

Hello, i would lile to ask you about buying rak's 3 dbi antenna with 30 ft long lmr 400 cable for my bobcat. Will it cause too much loss or is 1.65 db loss is too much? And some resources says that bobcat's stock antenna is for indoor/outdoor use but i couldnt find any official answer. Can i use stock antenna with some insulation tape instead of rak? My last question is can i use 3 dbi antenna for bobcat? Because it's stock one is 4 dbi. So will it decrease my antenna gain or anything else? Thank you very much.

Thing - 9/21/2021​

Hello, i would lile to ask you about buying rak's 3 dbi antenna with 30 ft long lmr 400 cable for my bobcat. Will it cause too much loss or is 1.65 db loss is too much? And some resources says that bobcat's stock antenna is for indoor/outdoor use but i couldnt find any official answer. Can i use stock one instead of rak's 3 dbi? (The reason that i want 3 dbi is the poc11). My last question is can i use 3 dbi antenna for bobcat? Because it's stock one is 4 dbi. So will it decrease my antenna gain or anything else? Thank you very much.

Nik - 9/21/2021​

Check the connection loss chart on this page , 30’ of LMR400 isn’t a ton of loss. Bobcat data sheet here. You can use any antenna you want on a Bobcat (or any hotspot), 3 dBi is fine.

scott dieken - 9/23/2021​

Can you make a blog post that explains what changes are in PoCv11?

Important Helium Update! How to update Antenna Dbi + location for POCV11 | ($HNT) | Chia (XCH)/Helium (HNT) Explained - 10/1/2021​

[…] Helium 101: Cable Loss and EIRP. - Gristle King - A Guide to Helium gristleking.com Helium (HNT) ???????? ???????? ????? Twitter Facebook ??? Pinterest ???????? iost Chia (XCH)/Helium (HNT) Explained […]

Eric - 10/10/2021​

Hello. Beginner here. I was wondering if cable loss affects the signal pattern of the antenna? Example: A 5.8 dpi antenna (outside) with a cable running 30 feet to a miner placed inside. Would the loss make the signal behave in more a "bubble" pattern like a 3dbi. Or remain more flat like the original 5.8 rating? Maybe a better example would be with a 8 dpi antenna. - Thank you.

Nik - 10/10/2021​

Nope. The antenna will radiate at the same general pattern, just with less energy.

Elias - 10/15/2021​

Hi nik What is the best dbi antenna to use on Cyprus (EU) on the city center of Nicosia Could you enlight me please ? Thank you

Richard Ogden - 10/15/2021​

Thanks for all your excellent content Nik. Very much appreciated. From a British cousin !

Nik - 10/15/2021​

I'd use a lower gain, 3-6 dBi. Whatever you get should be fine. Location & line of sight is far more important.

Mike - 10/23/2021​

Nik, thanks for answering my questions above from September 8th and 9th. I ended up using 80 feet of LMR400. Got the antenna on a really nice tripod on top of my roof about 6 feet above my old TV antenna (which aIso got raised up a bit with the bigger tripod). Overall, the antenna is about 35 feet above the ground. When I had an HNTenna indoors behind a curtain, I was getting around $1 to $1.50 a day. When I moved it right next to the glass, that went up to $5 a day. When I moved the HNTenna 3dbi up to 35 feet with the 80 foot LMR400 ,that went up to around $500 to $550 a month (around $16 to $17.50 a day). A few weeks later, I switched to 6 dbi McGill tuned to see if that would do better. It does and I consider it worth it. The 6dbi really reaches out though to other hotspots that are between 10 and 30 km away. That's really nice. The rewards are up to between $20 and $23 a day. Perhaps the length of cable was worth going up to LMR400 flex but overall, this is a very nice setup for what I was expecting. Thanks again.

Nik - 10/23/2021​

Right on, glad that worked out well for ya! Yeah, with those longer cable runs a higher gain antenna can make a difference.

Matty - 10/27/2021​

Hi Nik, So many of of are amending our setups. I'm in the UK currently running s 5.8dBi antenna with a 10m run of LMR-400, for arguments sake let's say all my losses are 1dBi. You are asked to enter a dBi value into the Helium app, deducting the 1dBi loss from the 5.8dBi antenna and entering this value in doesn't seem correct to me. My understanding is that the antenna dBi value will never change? Am I missing something here? As I would still enter the dBi value in as 5.8dBi because cable loss will not change this? Cheers

James - 10/27/2021​

Hi Nik, The helium app as asked for a dBi input for our antenna, I'm in the UK and run a 5.8dbi antenna with a 10m LMR-400 cable, for arguments sake let's say the cable loss/connector loss is 1dB, can you explain to my how this makes 4.8dBi? To me this doesn't make sense as my antenna is a fixed value, no amount of loss is going to change this. Is the value in the app 'dBi' incorrect for what we are now being advised to workout? (Cable and connector loss? Many Thanks,

Nik - 10/27/2021​

Well, they're trying to calculate the output of your system, so I'd claim the loss and enter 4.8 in your case.

James - 10/28/2021​

Hi Nik, Thanks for the response, whilst I get that it's a simple deduction. The cable loss doesn't change the end dBi, that is a static number surely, as that is set by your antenna? A 5.8dBi antenna will always be a 5.8dbi antenna? Is dBi the correct value being used?

Nik - 10/28/2021​

The cable loss does change the dBi. In simple terms, dBi is a measure of the maximum power in a given direction from an antenna. With cable loss, that power will be reduced, since there's less energy going INTO the antenna in the first place. The antenna radiation pattern won't change, it'll just be outputting less power in all directions. Does that make sense?

R Ogden - 10/29/2021​

Presumably there is no value in reporting cable loss if your antenna is at or below the maximum allowed before the miner reduces power to the antenna to get within the legal limit... iirc EU 4dbi and USA 9 dbi ?

Nik - 10/29/2021​

Not right now, but come PoCv11 you'll need to accurately report gain or risk going over the RSSI limits.

Kevin s - 11/3/2021​

First off I want to thank you for making such a comprehensive explanation!! I’m sure it was time consuming and I appreciate all the info as well as you taking the time to answer all our questions!! I’m here jn Denver Colorado which by the time my unit has arrived is quite saturated! Was able to find a location with 1.0 reward scale and plan to run a 50ft cable to the roof. I have numerous hotspots within 2 miles (maybe 20) and probably 100 within ten miles. And 750 I believe in within 50 miles... (as I said becoming a bit saturated!!!) Would you recommend sticking with the 3dbi (as I feel I’m going to hit my Max witness ammt with that) or should I try snd target as many as possible with 5.8 or 8? Also 400 on the cable since it’s 50ft? Or is the loss going to be somewhat irrelevant since I don’t need to reach out say 50km, if that’s the case do you think I’m ok with say a 195 to a 240 or would you recommend higher? And while I got you (sorry!) since denver is becoming so saturated going to be placing one in the mountains as a bit of an experiment. And some more rural areas as my reward scales being knocked down due to too many units jn the “larger hex” I’ve seen some witness all the way down here to denver from roughly 50-60 miles away (if I were to guess) on that I would assume higher dbi, what would you recommend an 8? And that I want to lose as little as possible so go with a 400 for cable correct or even higher? Last part tk that question that one IDEALLY I’d like to kind of point the direction back towards denver as the other way wouldn’t get line if aight over the continental divide, recommendations there? Sorry for the 10 part question! Been a 6 month long wait so I would love to get it right the first time!! Willing to spend the money to do it correctly the first time around but obviously don’t see the need to spend the extra money for say a 400 cord when I can get away with the 195 here in denver. But the main goal is to maximize the gains as with us all I’m sure ;) Again thank you so much for taking the time this will be the first out of ten I deploy so ANY information is GREATLY appreciate!! BY FAR the most informative post I’ve seen!! Can’t thank you enough! Keep up the great work it’s greatly appreciated!! Some of this is a bit over my head so thanks for holding my hand lol Thanks again! Best of luck.

Nik - 11/4/2021​

Hi Kevin, stick with low gain antennas and short runs of antenna cable. A 3 dBi HNTenna is fine, and 20' or less of LMR400 for that is also fine. As you start to go beyond that you probably want a 5.8 antenna, but it really won't make much of a difference compared to *where* you put the the antenna & the lines of sight it has. 3 dBi antennas have been routinely hitting 30 km with clear Line of Sight over the hills/mesas in San Diego, and 200+km over water.

JV - 11/4/2021​

Hi Nik, thank you so much for all the useful info you share that helps us to be be better Helium miners. I just have 1 question: I see a lot of reference to the cable loss and not as much to the connectors. I'm just wondering, when you add up the cable loss to the connector to the miner, the one to the lightning arrestor and the arrestor to the antenna, shouldn't you be factoring those in as well or are they so minute as to not make an appreciable difference? Thank you

Nik - 11/4/2021​

Hi JV, cable connectors do add to the loss and you can include them. Any good connector should come with how much loss it induces, and you can add that into your calcs.

JV - 11/4/2021​

What if it doesn't include that information, Nik? Is there a general rule that applies or a place with info we can consult? Thank you

Nik - 11/4/2021​

Oh, on the safe side .5/connector. If they're high quality it's probably more like .1.

Jack Armas - 11/4/2021​

NIK, thank you for the excellent article. I must admit a lot of the technical terminology went above my head. My hotspot is a RAK miner with a 60 foot LMR400 cable that runs all the way to the top of my house. It is attached to a 10 dbi antenna. With all that, I am not even witnessing. BTW, my miner is 'Acrobatic Wooden Beetle'. Feel free to look at it. Do I have the wrong antenna. How much loss do I have on this cable? Should a find a way to run an electrical line and ethernet cable to the roof and attach my miner up there inside a weather proof box? Sorry for all the questions and feel free to make fun of my ignorance. I just want to get this right. Thanks again.

Nik - 11/4/2021​

Check lines of sight to local hotspots. Are you not witnessing *at all* or just not as much as you'd like? The antenna is too hot, for sure, though the cable length will offset that a little. I'd run much shorter antenna cable and a much lower dBi antenna.

Jack Armas - 11/5/2021​

Hey NIK. I can confirm that I am not witnessing at on this 7th day into the HNT mining world. My antenna is 3 feet long and is sitting above any obstacles at the top of my chimney. So It should be true omnidirectional and have a 360 degree line of sight. What dBi would you recommend for a suburban house where 90% of homes are 1 story sub division homes? Again, I cannot thank you ENOUGH for your insight and expertise. TY TY TY!

Jack Armas - 11/5/2021​

Hello NIK. I can confirm that 7 days into HNT mining, I am not witnessing at all. My 10 dBi is sitting at the top of my chimney with nothing blocking it. It should be a true omnidirectional 360 degree line of sight install. For a suburban house with nothing but 1 story subdivision homes, what dBi should I be using? What would be the max length cable I could get away with? Again, I cannot thank you ENOUGH for your expertise and guidance.

Nik - 11/5/2021​

5.8 dBi will be fine for what you're doing; 10 dBi is way overkill. Florida is a tough environment for RF; flat, with LOTS of trees.

Peter Armenis - 11/10/2021​

Hey Nik, first off great info and love your YouTube videos. I’m using a 5.8 antenna with a 25 foot lmr 400 cable. Cable loss calculator shows a 1.1 dbi loss. Should I be updating my antenna info to 4.7?

Nik - 11/10/2021​

Right on, thanks Peter. Yep, that's what I'd update to.

Bob Jones - 11/13/2021​

Nik, what do you think about ground planes. I have read somewhere they can helo focus signal. Thanks.

Nik - 11/13/2021​

Yep, they can help shape the signal to go where you want it. The Bobcat stock antenna benefits greatly from a ground plane.

Shakir - 11/15/2021​

Nik, I read about deducting the cable loss and entering the value in the miner. What happens if we do the opposite? Say 8dbi antenna with 20 ft of 400 cable, instead of deducting 0.8dbi, can we add 0.8dbi in the miner (8.8dbi) so the antenna will get 8dbi of power and not 7.2dbi? Thanks

Nik - 11/15/2021​

Hi Shakir, your miner will output more power which will translate at the far end into a signal that looks suspiciously strong, and may invalidate your witnesses.

Darren - 11/18/2021​

Nik, I’m looking at putting an antenna on top of a tower that is about 100’ tall. Then another 20’ to enclosure. So around a total of 120’ of cable. I plan on using a 8 dBi antenna. Can I use LMR 400? By my math I would loose 6 dBi. Or should I go with the LMR 600? I don’t want to put miner and router on the tower because I want to be able to get to those items without paying a company to climb the tower every time I might have to reset, etc. Thanks!

Nik - 11/18/2021​

I'd use a lower loss cable, which will be a pain in the ass to work with. LMR600 or 900. And probably a lower gain antenna.

Darren - 11/18/2021​

Nik: So I would be better off using my 5.8 dbi with LMR600? Hate to think of the cost of using LMR900. Thanks for the help. Trying to get it correct the first time so I'm not having to pay someone to run up and down a tower to change out antennas. Thanks for the reply.

Nik - 11/18/2021​

Hi Darren, I'd run the calcs to see what your end output will be, then make the call from there re. antenna gain & cable type/loss.

Donnie - 11/18/2021​

Hi Nik, I recently set up a Bobcat Miner and my SNR seems quite high. I failed to witness another miner 3.3 km away but I am able to witness one 15 km away. Funnily enough, (not really though) as I was writing this I failed another witness to that same miner. From what I have read, the invalids would be the result of the “anti-gaming” put into effect on the Helium Network since it falls outside of the “acceptable range" for RSSI and SNR. I am completely new to RF and though I have been reading, I am uncertain of the next steps to take. My first thought was to increase the noise somehow so that it would lower my SNR to an acceptable range. Is this possible with an attenuator maybe? Second idea was to increase the signal strength but I already have the antenna mounted from my chimney running through LMR 400 (53 ft) to lightning arrestor to LMR 400 (10 ft) to miner and am not sure putting it higher would help considering the factor may be on the other miner’s end. Any input is greatly appreciated. Thank you. Invaild Distance3.3 km DatarateSF9BW125 RSSI-94dBm SNR11.5dB Frequency903.9 MHz Valid Distance15 km DatarateSF9BW125 RSSI-113dBm SNR-2.8dB Frequency904.7 MHz 2nd Invalid Distance~3.3 km DatarateSF9BW125 RSSI-96dBm SNR8.8dB Frequency904.9 MHz

Jim B. - 11/23/2021​

Nik, I consistently have Invalid Witnesses with a few miners around me, when I witness them or they witness me. When this happens the SNR is usually a positive value but never larger than 9db, most of the time its SNR 2-7db range but other times they are valid. How can this be corrected? (Examples below) VALID (my Miner): High Midnight Bobcat Distance ~2.8 km Datarate SF9BW125 RSSI -101dBm SNR 5.8dB Frequency 904.9 MHz INVALID Colossal Fleece Dove Distance ~2.8 km Datarate SF9BW125 RSSI -97dBm SNR 9dB Frequency 904.9 MHz

Nik - 11/24/2021​

Hi Jim, valid/invalid depends not only on your setup but the setup (and really, gain) of those miners around you. If they have a higher gain antenna (and you do as well), there's not much that'll help until PoCv11 comes out.

Orion - 11/24/2021​

If I paid you $500 to consult for me, what could you do to improve my situation? 1. I have a Gold RAK V2 on a 20 Foot flag pole with a 5.8 dbi antenna. 2. I have .27 transmit scale with a total of 6 other miners in hex. 3. Currently 112 witnesses Do you think, looking at those parameters, that you could improve my situation. My miner: https://explorer.helium.com/hotspots/11ouLbjduW7tdwzKr4SY7V2ekfHfGMPZdMbvyKh5ZALvDbe26G4

Nik - 11/24/2021​

Probably not much left to do there; you'll need to find a better location.

Gary - 11/27/2021​

In the "lobe" image its clear that even an omni directional antennae has a direction. How do to tell where that direction is? The reason I ask is I'm northeast of a large city. 99% of the miners are southwest or West of me. To the east there's nothing. So it would make sense to align the patter to face southwest. I have an 8dbi antenna with lighting arrestor (-.5 dbi) and 50' of rfc400 cable (-2.1 dbi) at about 35' feet high. Line of sight is good. I get valid witnesses out to 50km. I'm thinking the lobe direction is currently facing southeast based on my pattern of witness but I don't know how to officially tell.

Nik - 11/27/2021​

Hi Gary, The lobes in that image are for a sector (directional) antenna. Every antenna you purchase *should* have a diagram showing you the radiation pattern from a vertical and horizontal perspective. Omnidirectional antennas do have dead spots, but they're basically not worth paying attention to for Helium deployments. An omni will "see" in all directions.

Helium Mining - Definitive Guide to Earning Optimum HNT - 11/29/2021​

[…] you have a few options you can go for (the higher the cost, the lower the db loss). See here for a table of cable losses. I would typically go for LMR 400-600 cable as the best for price versus […]

Nodson - 11/30/2021​

hi Nik. I have rac v2 miner with 6dbi antenaa, but cable neth is 90 feet (LMR400) is it normal confg? Thank you

Nik - 11/30/2021​

That's a pretty long cable, but with a 6 dBi antenna shouldn't be an issue (depending on where you are. US no problem, Europe you'll want to upgrade/shorten the cable.) Make sure you enter the loss correctly there.

Marc - 12/4/2021​

Thanks to this and all the rest of your article I think I have a pretty good grasp on which antenna and cable to use. Thanks! The one thing I'm wondering. I currently have a 10 ft. Lmr-200 cable connected to a 5.8dbi outdoor antenna. @5m height. My current further witness is 18km. If I change out for 10ft. Of lmr-400 there would be less db loss and assuming Los I should be able to get more range? I'm not quite sure what less loss is actually accomplishing

Aaron Olson - 12/9/2021​

10 dbi antenna with 33 ft of cheap cable. What will this result in?

Mark S Werner - 12/10/2021​

I think this question is answered... It want to be sure. I have an hntenna 3dbi outdoor connected with 20 ft of lmr240. Looks like loss is 1.5. Should I include the loss in the Helium app to account for the loss?

Nik - 12/10/2021​

Yep, include the loss from the cable.

Jared Holm - 12/17/2021​

Does cable loss change the focus of a higher dB antenna? i.e. Would a 9dB antenna that would have a flat focused plane be changed into a wider focused plane (as in your diagram on antenna gain) if it had a 4 dB loss form a 100' run of LMR400? Or is that not how it works? I am in FL with VERY flat topography (including buildings...it's essentially wide open space above the trees), but am under the tree canopy. I have the fun but difficult task of trying to position an antenna above the canopy where it should be able to "see" for miles. By my current understanding, I feel I need something like a 7 dB antenna up on 100' of LMR400 above the canopy, but am curious if I'll have a flat plane shooting over everyone. Thanks for all the awesome info!

Nik - 12/17/2021​

Hi Jared, it won't change the pattern, it'll just weaken the output along that pattern.

Nate Martin - 12/19/2021​

New Bobcat arriving in a few days. Located in between Phoenix & Tucson, just a few miners nearby, but have option to also place closer to City as needed; can you please email me with information regarding consultation for my setup & strategy?

Abner Silverio - 1/9/2022​

HI buddy, how would you go about reducing the transmit gain? If you found u are running higher then you should and setup in the helium app to a 15dbi antenna and still was too high what can you put in the line to reduce the transmit gain?

Nik - 1/10/2022​

What antenna are you running? That'd be where I'd start. :)

Attzaz Rashid - 1/12/2022​

Hi, I've read through the article and embarrassed to say still stumped... I've got a 5.8dbi antenna on a 10m long LMR400 cable with a lightning arrestor between the aerial and cable. Is the figure I put into the helium app simply 5.8 less the loss in the cable which I think = 4.4dbi Any help would be really appreciated thank you! All the best Az

Nik - 1/12/2022​

Yep, bang on. [Antenna gain] - [cable loss] - [insertion loss from lightning arrestor] = Asserted gain in app.

Ernest - 1/14/2022​

I live in the suburbs on a hill and have an antenna on top of my roof about 40~ feet above ground. I am running 40ft of LMR400, which comes down to about 1.57db of loss. I used to run a 5.8db antenna when I had near 0 loss. Would it be more beneficial to swap to a 8dbi antenna due to the loss introduced with the new cable?

Nik - 1/14/2022​

Probably not, I'd stick with the 5.8. Focus on keeping the antenna up high and you'll be getting the most benefit.

Alex - 1/18/2022​

hi Nik, how are you - great post! I am trying to figure out my best setup. I have helium miner (bobcat 300) with the stock antenna on my roof. my house is prob 180m above sea level +10 meters for the antenna. most of the antennas i want to hear /see are below me or very far away (closest is 4km) . I actually think that I have to gain from a high gain antenna (8dbi is prob the sweet spot + 20 feet of cable + a lighting protector.) https://explorer.helium.com/hotspots/115s2Kxkwc5QMnBS3qLW2Bz7CBmwGRt7nFB9YRqQAiQ7C8pKUBP/activity does a high gain 8 or 10 sound too much? or a 6.5 better?

tanner - 1/18/2022​

my fav part of this article is how GK says ‘i’m showing you how to do the math yourself!’ and all the comments are like ‘what about my setup, it’s like this:’ Thanks for the info, way to always make it digestible

Nik - 1/18/2022​

6.5 to 8 is probably fine.

Alex - 1/18/2022​

@nik ty very much - appreciate all your "guardian angel like approach" - i went with 8 to try and reach the remote islands :) @tanner you are right :) but as to myself and in my defense there are components implied in the distance and height which make the decision a little more "experience" based vs math based. I liked this calculator also https://www.pasternack.com/t-calculator-antenna-downtilt.aspx - it helps understand how the height and distance play into it as well as the vertical lobe degrees Alex

Chris - 1/20/2022​

I messed up and ordered a LMR600 cable with the wrong connector. Will using a female to female converter result in a big lose? Is it worth replacing the cable or would it not make much difference?

Nik - 1/20/2022​

Depends on the connector quality; anything you use should list its "insertion loss". Probably not a huge deal, though if you're running LMR600 you probably have a reason to avoid loss. ;)

Had - 2/11/2022​

Hey NIK, is it worth runing 25 metter cable in order to climb antenna to roof of my 45metter building and completly open the view in full 360 circle? Or should I rather have around 150 degree open view and stay much lower but run short cable. Also which cable would you suggest for such a long setup? Is LDF 7/8 okay or should I stick to LMR - 600 or something else? Thank you for the answer in advance.

Nik - 2/11/2022​

I'd say getting it high offsets any cable loss issues. Calculate cable loss for your length & frequency and decide on your cable choice from there.

Had - 2/11/2022​

I already did, but I am not sure how much loss is a red flag? Is 2 db loss acceptable for 8-9 dbi antenna? I am from Europe btw. I saw that everyone just talking about LMR-400 as a standard and LMR-600 for longer set ups. So not sure if LDF cables are okay for hnt mining usage because no one is mentioning them even with the fact they got lower db lost.

Nik - 2/11/2022​

2 dB loss should be fine. I'm not familiar with LDF, sorry mate!

Jeff - 2/21/2022​

Hey Nik - Thanks for this awesome post - When you change the gain in Helium, this will only affect the Tx, not the Rx, correct? Say you have a 15dB antenna, if you set it to 15 in Helium, the Tx will be brought down to 36 (USA) while the Rx will remain at 42. Am I understanding this right?

Nik - 2/22/2022​

Yep, that's correct. Whew, that'll be a tight pattern!

Jeff - 2/23/2022​

Haha thanks! I'm not actually using a 15dBi - I was just using it as an exaggerated example. I run a 10dBi antenna and I'm planning to install a 2-way amplifier with a SAW filter on it and I want to make sure I'm in the legal range for my Tx without losing any Rx. Thanks again for all of your work in teaching us everything you know! Actually while I have you on the line - do you know if the Bobcat puts out 25dBi or 27dBi? I know the max for the US is 27 but most of what I can find in forums says Bobcat puts out 25.

Ben - 4/9/2022​

HI Nik, First what an amazing article, I’ve read hundreds and by far this is the most comprehensive. I’ve just setup my Bobcat Miner, live in Scotland in U.K. However, I messed up with initial setup, I got conned on some cable. So my setup is bobcat 300, McGill 6DBI tuned antenna, I’m 63M above sea level and my antenna is 13m high (top of house). However, I have 15 metres of RG58 cable (I know right). I calculated the loss it’s over 6dbi so I’m not sure why I am seeing witnesses 24km away. I’m generating around .4HNT per day but only 5 witnesses/2 becons a day….. In 3 days time I am replacing the cable to 10 Metres LMR 600 (£100 just for the cable), once I setup I’m going to update Helium app with a .4dbi loss is that correct? So new antenna will be 5.6DBI. I’m more keen to see what impact it will have with the new cable? What’s your thoughts? Hopefully I’ll have more witnesses. I’ll update you on the results hopefully the upgrade of the new cable will pay for itself and show the results.

Nik - 4/9/2022​

Right on Ben. You may have more witnesses if the extra signal gets you through a few more walls/trees. Depends on how many Hotspots are around you. .4 HNT/day right now is about 4x global average. :)

M Dave - 5/5/2022​

Hi nik, How to calculate db , dbi, Eire for miner using 860 to 870:mhz…pls advice which antenna should I use.

Nik - 5/5/2022​

Hey mug, follow the links in this article and you can run the calcs. Also, check out this article on choosing antennas.

Had - 5/19/2022​

Hey, I recently upgraded from a stock antena to 7.5 dbi McGill and I have some invalids (rssi too high) when I am witnessing. My first thought was to try putting a higher number of dbi into the app but if I am correct that would just weaken my tx and not rx. I am runing a 15m of lmr 600 + a lightning arestor. Do you have any idea beside attenuator or you think I have to buy attenuator? Thank you in advance

Nik - 5/19/2022​

Hmm, how long has it been? I might give it a few more days and let this whole Light Hotspots thing settle before I made any changes.

Raghav - 5/31/2022​

I've a 6 Dbi antenna at the height of 15 meter. My Antenna is Connected with 12meter long LMR 400 Cable going through a 0.5 meter long RG316 Jumper(connector). What antenna gain should I mention on Helium App

Nik - 5/31/2022​

Hi Raghav, add up all the losses from your cables and subtract that from the antenna gain. I'd probably include .2 dB per connector, but that's splitting hairs for this.

Ryan - 8/16/2022​

First off thanks for responding to people. So here is the question. 5.8 antenna > arrestor > 25ft LMR240 > Miner. I want to add a amp (RX Gain +12dB,TX Gain +3dB, 2 saw filters) would it be better to add it near the miner or antenna...maybe not at all?

Nik - 8/16/2022​

Amp not needed. I'm not sure about best positioning on it re. where in the chain, a quick search suggests closest to the antenna, but again, I'm not sure.

Getting the most out of a Helium hotspot deployment requires a strategy to maximize your placement, antenna elevation, and then physically deploying the thing.

Most of the earnings will come from the placement. I know it's usually easiest to just put it up in your house, but it's probably worth assessing a few spots before you install it in the easiest place possible. Here's a video walking you through how to assess a location for a Helium hotspot deployment.

https://youtu.be/mDKNdRTxwIQ

Now, you probably know your local area pretty well, but I've seen a lot of clients surprised by "hidden" geographical features that blocked their RF viewshed and therefore their earnings.

With assessment tools being affordable (I use Helium.Vision, but there are other tools as well), there's no excuse not to do your homework and determine whether or not all the effort that goes into physically deploying a hotspot will be worth it at your house or somewhere else.

The video walks you through the steps to take that will help you run an assessment on your place. This is just a small piece of the Strategy & Optimization consulting I do, but I thought it would be super useful for many of you who want to start on the journey of maximizing your hotspot.

Oh, as a hot tip: I now start with temporary deployments just to test things out. I can put an antenna up in under an hour, Beacon using Discovery mode just to check on things, then let it run for a week or two before putting in a more permanent placement. Mastwerks is what I'm using for an excellent tripod that'll get that antenna up high temporarily. You can find other options, but I wanted the best out there. ;)

Best of luck to you, and please, if you do something different I'd love to hear about it! If you'd like help understanding more about Helium and how to maximize this opportunity, take a course or consider hiring me.

Archived Comments​

Chris - 6/13/2021​

One hotspot I deployed was “Unique Blonde Bear,” I used Helium RF and it looked like it would not be a good placement for the hotspot. I optimized the setup using your guide and placed it on a 22 ft. pole Now I have about 14+ hotspot connections. Wondering if there’s anything else I can do to optimize the coverage. Cheers!

Nik - 6/13/2021​

Hi Chris, once you get it at the max height for your location, that's about the most you can do. Nice job on the 14!

Tom Fool - 6/14/2021​

Hey Nik, quick question regarding Helium.vision - does it know if your hotspot has been updated? Say I change the antenna and placement slightly but its still in the same location - will helium.vision be able to account for that or is it just a simulation giving rough estimates? Is discovery mode the only way to tell if a hotspot is witnessing in "real time"?

Nik - 6/14/2021​

Tom, HV will pull data in from whatever you've reported via the Helium App; if you've updated your antenna & elevation, that's what will display. The simulations *can* change radically depending on elevation, less so with antenna gain. Discovery mode is just a snapshot in time of what nearby hotspots have witnessed your beacon.

Ady - 6/14/2021​

Hi Nik, I’m awaiting for my RAK hotspot miner order, my question is I live in a rural area in the UK my nearest hotspot is 45kilometers away. Does this mean I’ll not be able to have any witnesses and should be looking to move it elsewhere in a built up location. You’re advise greatly appreciated. Ady

Nik - 6/14/2021​

In general, yes, you'll want to be able to see at least 4 other hotspots in order to begin to earn maximally.

Simon Moreno - 6/15/2021​

How did your miner mined 80+ helium token within 2 weeks? I added your Helium and it added up only 5 helium tokens?

Nik - 6/15/2021​

Hi Simon, not sure I understand the question. Would you re-phrase?

David - 7/22/2021​

Hey Nik, I've had my rak v2 miner for a month, it connected to the network day one with no issues, there are roughly 7 miners near me within a 10km radius, and hundreds within 100km. I'm the only miner in my area through lvl 6 on helium vision. I'm at one of the highest points in the county so it would seem it's a perfect spot. I'm beaconing and witnessing other miners, but I haven't had a single witness yet. I didn't even earn 1 from hnt in 30 days. I have the miner inside on the second floor right next to the window, roughly 30ft in the air, not near any metal or obstructions I can see or am aware of. I just found your blog, both the hnt help desk abs the discord have given me mixed answers, no one seems to know what's wrong. Could my miner be defective? If I build a 20ft tower and put the miner outside all that any difference or is there anyway I can troubleshoot that? It doesn't seem to make sense that I can witness other hotspots around the world, but no one can see me? No one has any answers and a few other ppl are complaining that their rak v2s can't be seen - do weak just have bad placements or are you aware of any issues with the v2s? I know they had tremendous issues getting them. I ordered in February and didn't get mine until this month. I can't quite afford your full assessment, but would $50 get me anywhere? I'd really appreciate any help you can give me.

Nik - 7/23/2021​

Stock antenna? If you're witnessing other miners that's good. Troubleshooting steps: 1) Is there any way to get the antenna outside, even temporarily, just to test if that's a good fix? That might run you $30-70 for the cable, depending how long a run you need. 2) Does Discovery mode work? 3) With only 7 HS in a 10 km radius, that might be the issue, especially if they're not well placed. 4) For $50 you could build a mapper and test your coverage as well as running data through your device. If that works, then it'll probably be an issue with the other hotspots.

David - 7/23/2021​

Yes it's the spock antenna - if I took it outside temporarily I'd have to drop it about 8ft from where it's at. Opposed to drilling through the roof or brick id probably have to build a little tower and could probably get it 20-30ft in the air but it would still be lower than where it is now. Do you think with an upgraded antenna I might reach some of the further hotspots or will that not make a difference if they are too far away? When you say issue with the other hotspots - Do you mean they are too far or they aren't working properly? I understand a little bit about RF frequency, I just don't see the brick making a huge difference. It's just been a bit frustrating with the massive delay. Is there a YouTube tutorial for the mapper, that seems a little over my head with the coding, I don't want to accidentally break anything and the quick start guide is a dead link?

Nik - 7/23/2021​

Hi David, I'd start with getting the antenna outside for a day or two, just to see if that's the issue. If it is, then you can build a tower. The other hotspots may be poorly deployed; sometimes they see you, sometimes they don't. You'll have to Google around for a tutorial, or head to the Discord and check the #mappers thread.

David - 7/23/2021​

Hey Nik, I think I see what the problem is - I'm north of Pittsburgh and even though I'm at one of the highest points in the state, the terrain of the whole state is "the rolling hills of Pennsylvania" out side building a 100ft tower - it looks like I'm not going to reach anything because one way or another there's a hill in the way - and a few of the close miners do have poor setups - 2 are relayed, and 3 of them are using 8dbi antenna's - I can't imagine that's a good idea for the terrain. I can't build a massive tower, but if I was able to get it up about 20-30ft and got one of those hntennas do you think it would make any difference? There are roughly 9 miners between 7-10km from me. I don't know how much the hills are blocking the frequency from where they are. I was never able to figure out how to add credits or get the frequency thing to work on helium vision. I did get one response from another hotspot while running discovery mode with the miner outside on the ground, but still no witnesses - it really seems like it's the hills and the only real way around hilly terrain is be more miners closer together.

Nik - 7/23/2021​

The HNTenna (or any antenna) won't make a difference when it comes to punching through hills; they just won't do it. See if you can use the Line of Sight tool on Helium.Vision, that'll quickly tell you if you're likely to be able to witness/beacon with other hotspots. Rock on!

David - 7/23/2021​

Nik, Just looking at quick line of site scenarios - it seems I need to get it to almost 120 Ft to get over anything - I actually might be able to hide in a tree in my yard - do you have any suggestions for an internet connection though wifi won't reach it there. I have some outdoor lighting so powering it isn't a major issue the line is already there. I might be easier to mount on a tree and there's no way I can put anything that large on the roof - if I got to that height - would a 5dbi antenna make sense - in theory it should be clear for a good 15miles since I'm on such a high point to start with - or would it be better to go with 3dbi so it has better reach into valleys - I'm hopeful that a few more will pop up in my area, I'm a bit shocked to see how many are actually in the city and I'm seeing new ones pop up more and more as miners are finally being shipped out. Thanks for all your help btw - not a single person on discord suggested checking line of sight - every just kept saying just wait for it to load on the the blockchain and I was pretty sure that was just BS. I can't believe there aren't better how to guides from the companies selling these. I'm really glad I found your site.

Nik - 7/23/2021​

I'd use PoE if you can; you've got 300' to work with on that and it solves your internet problem. Either antenna should be fine. I'm not a fan of tree mounts, though I do have at least one client who's had success with 'em. Charge!

Ray - 7/23/2021​

If I extend my antenna from my chimney say 10 - 20 feet. the chimney is about 25 30 feet already, should I worry about lighting hitting my antenna, there is not much lighting though. There may be some other trees a little higher in the 3 arc property. Also, is the antenna that comes with the synchro bit I believe 3.8 be the best to use if I want to reach a 5-mile radius with other machines in the area? does the 3.8 antennae reach out in a circle compared to the others out there? Thank you

Nik - 7/24/2021​

Hi Ray, with a lightning arrestor added you'll be doing all you can to prevent damage to your equipment. Sounds like a pretty low risk (from a lightning perspective) install to me. A 3.8 dBi antenna will be fine, just make sure it's rated for outdoor use. If not, the upgrade to an outdoor rated antenna will run you from $35-$150, depending on what you get.

Gerry - 8/8/2021​

Great information Nik, and super helpful. Question about optimal value from placement of multiple miners - There are 0 miners in my town, but I have 7 miners arriving with the first batch coming in 3 days. Main street in my town is roughly 1 mile long and extends 1/4 mile on each side of main street. I am on one end of town within 300 feet of the highway between 2 of the biggest cities here in Texas. In regards to the placement of 7 miners, and outside of the discussion regarding terrain and buildings etc would it A - be better to have a tight hexagon cluster at one end of town where my house is to leverage HIP17_res_8, or B - would it be better to try to zigzag crossing main street to deliver more coverage. Another consideration I struggle with is the thought around a tight placement grid that would best make it look like there is no room at the Inn for new hotspots within "my" grid. The drive to head in that direction is to aim to have the most possible control over each of the hotspots in that grid in regards to any necessary upgrades to antennas, outdoor enclosures or mast height. Thank you for taking questions here.

Nik - 8/8/2021​

Hey Gerry, I'd focus on providing excellent wide coverage with the HS youhave. You just won't have the opportunity to witness beacons as much with only 7 hotspots, no matter if you deploy them tightly or spread out. As the network grows, we all beacon less frequently. Plus, you can't really *own* or prevent anyone from doing anything. I guarantee you'll have some jackwagon put a hotspot up right next to yours. Has happened to me. The best thing to do is to make sure every placement is the best it can possibly be, and that it has clear line of sight to as many other miners as possible.

Ray - 8/17/2021​

My son has a house with a Direct TV antenna on the roof they are not using. Can he use that to connect his SP hotspot mining machine? Also, Would a 5.8 ANTENNA reach the same radius distance or more as the 3.8 that comes with our mining machine.? Thank you, Ray

Nik - 8/17/2021​

Hi Ray, the Direct TV antenna won't work; not the same freq. Either the 5.8 or the stock will be fine; they'll both reach plenty far.

Bob - 8/20/2021​

Hey nik, 3 questions 1. Is the stock antenna usually water proof i have the 4dbi bobcatminer one. 2. When first setting up my hotspot, in the assert location step, where you drag the little triangle to the other little triangle, my actual location is a few meters off(30maybe) from where it placed it, is this a big deal? 3. And lastly ,when setting up the hotspot how important is it to accurately type in your elevation on the antenna details, because most of the hostspot with really high earnings are at 0m of elevation in my area so i can only assume its not relevant? Thanks for your hard work and time to help us all out.

Nik - 8/20/2021​

Hi Bob, 1. Bobcat has told me their antenna is outdoor rated; I don't know about waterproof (like underwater), but outside should be fine. 2. A few meters isn't a big deal. It'll always snap to the middle of the res 12 anyway. 3. Unimportant for now to enter antenna details, but it will eventually be important once we go to PoCv11, especially if you're using a higher gain aftermarket antenna. The default elevation is 0, that's what a lot of people just leave it at.

Hotspotty Improved: Deep Research For A Better Way - Gristle King - A Guide to Helium - 11/4/2021​

[…] the main­te­nance guy over at the Empire State Build­ing, etc. If you need help, I’ve got a blog post over here about how to do an […]

michael walsh - 12/27/2021​

Hey, Nik I live in the NJ/NY area and I have various places that I can place my miner such as 60 story buildings to areas to huge warehouses. I currently have it in my house as connected via ethernet but I am running into the issue of port forwarding to resolve the relaying issue. If you can reach back out to me with some advice on an antenna, best location, and how to remove this thing out of relay mode it would be much appreciated. Also anyone seeing this thread can reach out to me and can possibly utilise the various locations I have to mine.

Nik - 12/27/2021​

Hi Mike, I'd post your properties over in the Real Estate section of HeliumJobs. I offer paid consulting that covers your questions, check out your options here.

Allan - 12/30/2021​

Hey Nik, I am all new to Helium mining and recently purchased 2 RAK Miners (Gold 8GB editions). I set them both up currently inside for now. 1 is connected and seeing little reward, probably due to stock antenna and inside, the other is in another room and is relayed with no witnesses which i assume as it connected to the first miner. I set up port forwarding, i changed it to another network (other router but connected to main network router) and still it shows as relayed. Maybe this is normal, i do not know but before i start to change antennas and look to set up outside, any advise you can offer? Also i am in an apartment, is there an easy way to install a new outside antenna on a balcony set up where i have limited elevation options? Thanks a bunch,

Nik - 12/31/2021​

Hi Alan, I'd suggest getting them at least 1 km apart, getting the antennas outside, and up high. 2 miners on one network usually force a relay on one of 'em.

Allan - 1/1/2022​

Thanks Nik, I will ask a friend to place 1 of the units in his apartment and use an outside antenna :)

Allan - 1/4/2022​

Hi Nik, Sorry for another message. I switched off one of the miners and will relocate it next week, however it still shows as online through the app? Also how do i get the main one (the one that is still connected to network and shows a 0.37 transmit scale which i assumed it would go back to 0.77 before i set up a 2nd miner? Maybe it takes more time to revert back to 0.77 or does it depend on the set up of the 2nd miner at a new location? Thanks a bunch

Nik - 1/4/2022​

No worries. The app can be delayed by days, don't worry about it showing as online still. Should be 2 and a half days (approx) for the scale to update once the miners are moved.

Allan - 1/6/2022​

Great thanks, You were right, moved back up to 0.72 transmit scale, however i am unable to remove it from relayed even after port forward, restart etc. Even checked with Port Checker and everything looks good there, port is Open, looked in the diagnostics from the app, everything looks good, Outbound/Inbound = Green, BlockChain Sync = 100% green, so everything looks all good, just the relayed part i need to figure out now. Thanks a bunch as always

Nik - 1/6/2022​

Hi Allan, try this post, and use HeliumStatus.io for checking your status.

Sam - 4/16/2022​

Hey Nik, Moving the antenna outside is not an option for everyone specifically the one's living in apartments with no balconies and buildings around. I was thinking to move the antenna to building roof but in summer its too much hot here. Now the solution I am thinkjng of is: there is a room at the roof in my building for lifts motor and AC is always on there. If i can move my miner in that room with POE and connnect a 5.8 dbi antenna with it which will be placed on the roof of the same room. But before doing it I have few questions: 1. Will the magnets and motors in the lift room interefete with the lorawan signals? 2. If I place the bobcat miner on the roof top under some shade, in summers weather can damage the hardware? I am talkjng about 8th floor ad region is middleeast( Bahrain). If I can go with this approach i can place the miner a bit far from this lift room. 3) If I place miner in the lift room and antenna lets say 7 ,8 meters away , will this work fine? Appreciate if you can help here.

Nik - 4/16/2022​

Good question, you'll have to try it out. Bahrain is pretty darn hot, I'd keep the 'cat cool if you can. 7-8m run for cable is no problem, just use something like LMR400.

How do you attach a lightning arrestor to your Helium hotspot antenna? What does one look like? Is it dangerous?

Let's start with a picture. This will answer 90% of your questions.

You can (and according to knowledgable ham radio operators) SHOULD connect the lightning arrestor at the other end of the cable, down by the miner. Another way of saying that is: Don't attach the lightning arrestor directly to the antenna like you see in the picture, attach it to a short piece of cable that connects to the miner, and a long run of cable that goes to the antenna. That didn't fit into my picture, so I did it this way.

Now, let's talk about what you can expect a lightning arrestor to do. Hint: Despite the blog post title, a lightning arrestor won't stop a bolt of lightning.

A lightning arrestor connects the antenna to the antenna cable. It passes the RF signal from one to the other through a medium that, when it gets too much power, it breaks, just like a fuse. RF engineers will probably lose their minds when they hear it explained that way; they'll start spouting about ionized gasses and fixed gas discharge tubes and input/output surge magnitudes. They're right, but you don't have to know all that to use a lightning arrestor.

A lightning arrestor will NOT stop a direct lightning strike. That would annihilate your house. While it would be awesome advertising to see a pristine hotspot miraculously protected in the middle of a charred and blackened house hit by lightning, it wouldn't be true.

All a lightning arrestor really does is protect your electronics against the static electricity that can build up during a storm. If the energy feeding into your antenna (don't kill me lightning scientists!) gets too high it zaps the gas in the middle of the arrestor, breaking the connection to the antenna cable, and all the energy is diverted to that ground wire (which is hopefully attached to your house ground.)

So, uh, how does it work? Just screw the thing in between your antenna and antenna cable, connect the attached grounding wire to a metal "path" that goes all the way to the ground and you're done.

Wait, you want more? What antenna is that? Where did I get that mount? What's the insertion loss on this lightning arrestor (make sure you get the right connectors!) vs the stuff the military uses when they don't want to fritz out a $40,000 piece of electronics? Psst, just get one from McGill that fits your cables.

I'll start with the antenna. I don't know what it is. A friend brought it over. He said he'd bought it on eBay and what did I think of it? I thought it would make a good demo for this lightning arrestor post, so I just gave him a Nearson 8 dBi I had laying around and kept his unknown antenna, which had the only thing that mattered: An N-connector on the bottom.

What about the mount? Made that out of aluminum bar, twisted, drilled, and ground to fit. Should've drilled first, but I made it work. The other super cool part of this project is the use of rivnuts. Stop here if you want to learn anything more about lightning arrestors, and refer to the above picture.

Just because I love building stuff and sharing knowledge, here's the journey. I started by clamping the aluminum bar in my vise, then twisting one end 90 degrees.

Twist complete. Nothing fancy, just simple and functional. I'll leave that pink paint on the end of the bar. Pink means you like to party.

Then I drilled out the holes I'd need for the antenna mounts and the pole mount.

I love that drill press. A random guy gave it to me. I saw it in his garage and commented on how old and rad and heavy duty it was. He said, "That thing's dangerous, I watched my grandfather lose the end of his finger in it. Do you want it?" Yep.

It weighs about as much as I do. I love heavy metal.

Next, I laid out what I'd need. Antenna, lightning arrestor, grounding wire, easy disconnect terminals, and a rivnut. Aw yeah, rivnuts!

Ok, what's a rivnut?

It's a cool little way to add a nut into a thin walled piece of metal. You drill out the hole, screw the nut onto a rivnut tool, insert the sleeve into the hole, then compress the sleeve of the nut, securing it to the wall of the pole.

Here's what it looks like. That's ready for a 10-24 bolt, which I happen to have a bunch of.

I used a u-bolt to clamp on my demonstration antenna mount.

Then I had to make the grounding wire. I used 12 gauge cable for this demo, most specs require 10 or 12 ga. You need to crimp on quick connect terminals to both sides, then seal the heat shrink around 'em. Here's what it looks like with the wire stripped, before I made the connection.

Here's what it looks like once you crimp it.

I crimped both sides, used a heat gun (Steinel HL2020E if you must know) to shrink it down all tight and pretty, and I had my grounding wire. You want these to be as short as possible.

All that was left was to connect everything up. Here's what it looks like without a bunch of words pasted in. Yes, I could've made the grounding cable shorter. I just didn't.

Pretty simple, right?

Oh, and the insertion loss? Let's be mean and call it .5 dB. If you're deploying for a critical application and want to drop $150 on a badass NexTek Surge Guard lightning arrestor with < .1 dB loss, you can do that because every tenth of a dB counts. But....you don't have to.

Ok, that wraps up lightning protectors. You don't need to do any of the building/light fab work I did, you can just screw it into your antenna and use the mount that comes with any decent antenna. It's simple. You got this!

Archived Comments​

Larry - 6/8/2021​

Hi Nik, would love to buy a couple of your home made brackets that mount to the pole. They look so different and obviously custom made. Nice to have someone in the HNT community explaining the correct way of doing things.

John Diprose - 6/8/2021​

Great stuff as always Nik. Can I put the arrestor at the end of the cable near the ground where I will be putting a grounding spike? Or does it have to attach to the antenna. As my antenna will be on my roof and no place to ground up there.

Nik - 6/8/2021​

Right on Larry. You can totally make 'em yourself with a vise and a few clamps. If you'd rather just have me make 'em for you, reach out via the Contact Form for a quote. Thanks again!

Dan Kiel - 6/8/2021​

Can you ground it off anything that qualifies that is near by or do you have to ensure it is grounded all the way to your house ground or a newly pounded in ground rod? I've been prepared to run the ground wire all the way down the side of my house, but if I can ground it on something closer, that would be great.

Nik - 6/8/2021​

John, shouldn't be a problem to put it lower down the chain.

Nik - 6/8/2021​

Hi Dan, there has to be a solid connection all the way to the grounding rod/house ground. Can't just attach it to the nearest metal "thing". :)

John diprose - 6/8/2021​

Thanks Nik

Stephen - 6/8/2021​

Thanks for the great info Nik. I'm looking to put my antenna at the top of a wooden post (get's me another 4mtr above rooftop, in a very flat area), so how/what/where do I attach the grounding wire coming out of the arrestor? FYI I will be running power cable up the post as well, given the HS plug is only 2-pole (not earthed) could I potentially run a 3 wire cable and use the earthed wire to connect to the arrestor? Thanks in advance, S.

Nik - 6/9/2021​

You'll need to run thick metal all the way to the building ground. The wire in a 3 wire isn't thick enough by a long shot.

Gary - 7/10/2021​

Hey Nik. I have the lightning arrester and some solid copper 8 awg copper (I know it's probably overkill) this fits in the lightning arrester terminal perfectly! Is that ok that I use bare copper wire and no sheathing? I see you are using braided copper wire I think.l with terminal connectors. I want to run that from the arrester to the terminal clamp I bought to fit my mast. Then from there I was going to run a separate copper wire down to my copper rod and connect it to the grounding clamp there. I was going to go to house ground which is only a few feet away, I just wanted to make it tidier lol. Does this seem right?

Nik - 7/10/2021​

You know, I'm not sure. I'd think the sheathing would be pretty important, but I'm not an electrician.

Bruce - 7/11/2021​

Hi Nik, Do you know if the lightning arrestors on Amazon are of sufficient quality? Take this for example (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B078NT5M37/ref=cm\_sw\_r\_wa\_apa\_glt\_fabc\_EHQBTXA5T5T5N6GMWNFE?psc=1) They list the same specifications and signal loss as other, more expensive options such as Times Microwave ones.

Nik - 7/11/2021​

Hi Bruce, typically you get what you pay for, though that can be offset by paying more for a name brand. I usually go with name brand just to be safe.

Ndu - 8/13/2021​

Nik, I have this https://www.timesmicrowave.com/DataSheets/FamilyProducts/LP-GTV.pdf. What do you think about the insertion loss? Is this a suitable arrestor? Thanks!

Nik - 8/13/2021​

Just a caveat: I'm not an electrician. :). That looks fine to me.

Aaron Ursulak - 8/16/2021​

Finally someone to answer my simple question ... I finally received my HNT miners and antennas . Can I screw my lighting arrestor (with a female end) directly onto my antenna (with a male end), and avoid breaking the run and order two separate cables. or dose the lightning arrestor have to be a certain distance from the antenna? It looks like that is exactly what you are doing and that way I dont have to order a second cable and break the cable run correct? Thanks .

Nik - 8/16/2021​

Hi Aaron, yep, that's totally fine to attach the lightning arrestor directly to the antenna.

Aaron Ursulak - 8/16/2021​

Your the best thanks! Its tough to find co ax in my area. Looks like ill have to order them all on line custom mae. hey do you know of good place, quick shipping to ALberta Canada that can make up som 440 with N type female end and RP SMR male end at lengths of, 5' 10', 15' 25' and 30'?

Aaron Ursulak - 8/16/2021​

Sorry for the type .. looking for some 400 co ax. not "som 440"

Nik - 8/16/2021​

Hi Aaron, hmm, not sure of Canadian sources. Might try calling USACoax.com and see if they have Canadian connections.

Aaron Ursulak - 8/16/2021​

Thx. That is where Im looking.

Michael - 8/17/2021​

Hey Nik, I have an HNTenna 3 dBi antenna (tall, skinny one) and am placing it outside my bedroom window on the 3rd floor of my apartment. I’ve read that a 3 dBi antenna won’t need a lightning arrestor since it’s 1) not strong enough to send too much power back to the hotspot to fry it, and 2) I’m not hoisting the antenna up a pole 20 feet higher than the apartment roof. If that info is inaccurate and a lightning arrestor is needed, is it possible to ground the copper wire to my balcony floor? I won’t have access to dropping a 30 ft wire down the side of the building.

Leon - 8/18/2021​

Hi Nik, straight donw the line and to the point post, freakin awesome. Here are some thoughts from days when we used RS485 as communication over long distances in South Africa where lightening was always a challenge. - Arrestor as close as possible to equipent to minimize the exposed wire becoming the next lightening / statis antenna. Any exposed wire has the possibility of receiving and inducing static into the system. - Rather run a new ground wire to a propper Ground pole - if the ground is not good then not even the fancy gasses will stop a static / lightening strike. Its a good idea to have a Ground pole near a rain gutter to keep the ground as moist as possible. - Buy good well known arrestors, its worth it Leon

Nik - 8/18/2021​

Hi Mike, well, technically *all* outdoor antennas should have a lightning arrestor. Many don't. I'll probably get sued out of existence for saying it, but I wouldn't worry too much about a small antenna outside your bedroom window.

Nik - 8/18/2021​

Right on, thanks Leon!

Michael Johnson - 8/18/2021​

Hi Nik, I appreciate the honesty. My biggest concern is making sure my hotspot doesn't get damaged but you seem like an extremely honest guy with a TON of experience so I'll take your word on it. Thanks!

Aaron - 8/18/2021​

He’s better off to buy a 5.8 DBI antenna and mount it in his window indoors instead of a weak three outside No grounding required and better range

Octavio - 8/23/2021​

Hi Nik, I plan on putting my antenna on the side of my roof (about 20 feet high but at the same height as the roof). Like Mike, do you suggest grounding it since it's not 20ft about the house? Additionally, I have a few power lines near my house that are about 30-50 feet away. Would these create static and possibly damage my miner? Thanks in advance!

Nik - 8/23/2021​

Hi Octavio, I wouldn't worry about static from the power lines. Technically you should ground every outdoor antenna. Practically you'll see that many people don't.

Aaron Ursulak - 8/25/2021​

Hey Nik I now have 2 or 6 miners installed. I wish I had. Clone to do the installs . Anyhow Ive been asked a couple time now are Bobcat devises safe. What do they emit. Ive heard RF waves are harmful … etc and I can’t really find anything that states they are safe other than they are FCC approved .do you have any links or info uiu can send me. Many thanks Aaron Ursulak

Nik - 8/25/2021​

Hi Aaron, yep, check this post over here on RF exposure.

Teodora - 8/25/2021​

Hi Nik, it may be a stupid question here but better ask... :) We'll mount our antenna on a 6-storey building and the antenna will be 5 ft above the roof. The grounding of the roof (which is flat) is done with a metal grid that covers the roof. We are thinking about connecting the lightning arrestor to the grid instead of running our own rod all the way to the ground, which obviously is not possible. Just worrying that charge already collected in the grid may go up to the arrestor and damage the equipment. I don't know if this is ? valid concern... What do you think?

Nik - 8/26/2021​

Good question. I don't think so, but I'm not an electrician. There shouldn't be any charge collected in the grid; it's grounded, right?

Aaron Ursulak - 8/26/2021​

Hey Nik. I need another 10 5.8DBI antennas> I can order them from RAK but delivery is way out ...! Do you know of US supplier? Thanks Aaron Ursulak

Nik - 8/26/2021​

Check Parleylabs, it looks like they have 'em in stock.

Ndu - 8/28/2021​

Hi Nik, Have you come across other strong research/opinions against connecting the lightning arrestor directly to the antenna like you did? Do you have the arrestors directly connected to the antenna in most of your setups? I ask because I would like to follow best practice once and for all. Thanks.

Nik - 8/28/2021​

Hi Ndu, I've heard from a couple folks that you should connect the lightning arrestor closer to the equipment being protected. I have 'em connected directly to my antenna.

Eli - 9/22/2021​

Hi Nik, which "Nex­Tek Surge Guard light­ning arrestor" would be recommended for an outdoor HNTenna?

Nik - 9/22/2021​

Hi Eli, The outdoor HNTenna has an N-type female connector, so you'd want an N-type male on one side of the NexTek, then whatever matches your cable or hotspot on the other.

Brad - 10/4/2021​

Nik, I've learned a lot from your site. I appreciate it! My original plan was the mount the lightning arrestors at the base of the antennas and then running the cables back in the house...10', 20', or 30' or whatever the length for the application. However, now I've heard people on the AV and Ham radio forums say that since cables can also build up a static charge (not just coming in from the antenna) then static charge won't necessarily be disappated out that arrestor as you'd want, and it could just as easily go down the cable to the miner and so this is why you should have the arrestor/ground as close as possible to where it enters the house and also as short of a cable as possible to the ground rod. I guess you don't think that is necessary? What I'm worried about is that we THINK and HOPE we're fine with the arrestor at the end of the antenna but we don't KNOW for sure until it's too late and we have damage! These were also recommended to me, which ground the outer sheath but I assume not the inner wire of the cable. I wonder if this could be a good belt and suspenders solution since I've already purchased the cable and arrestors to do it as you said, but these could also dissipate static in the line closer to the building entrance. (Not sure if links are allowed but here it is if so) https://www.solidsignal.com/installation/grounding-supplies?custitemsg\_brand=Times-Microwave-Systems&pricelevel5=0.31to31.97

Nik - 10/4/2021​

Hi Brad, That all looks good, and you can definitely put the lightning arrestor closer to the gear side (away from the antenna). I've always used super short antenna cables so a short ground wire hasn't been an option, but it's a fine way to build it. Let me know how it goes with the Solid Signal stuff, looks neat.

Mohammad - 10/21/2021​

Thanks! My question is that if doing all grounding process is going to discharge the static electrical energy enough to prevent sparks or still a lightning may hit the antenna. In case of a big hit all the antenna and grounding system will evaporate but I wonder if grounding really prevents such a hit. My house is a one story house and the highest point is 15 ft up. My antenna is 6 ft long. I appreciate if I you advise me on this case. Many thanks!

Nik - 10/21/2021​

Hi Mohammed, a lightning arrestor won't actually stop a lightning strike, it'll just discharge static buildup. A direct hit will destroy everything, including the house. :)

Carl - 11/1/2021​

If youre deploying an off-grid hotspot is there any need to ground...as in a roof top deployment? Thanks

Nik - 11/1/2021​

Yep, still need to give that static charge an easy path to the ground.

Illia - 11/15/2021​

Hi Nik, Interesting post. I want to hear your opinion about the setup I am about to create. I have a two-story house with a chimney on top. I plan to install a 20ft flag pole as my mast to raise my miner as high as possible. I will use the original bobcat antenna, but I will be using the lighting arrestor with that. As far as I understand, I will ground the arrestor to the pole, and then I should also ground the pole to my house grounding rod. I am not particularly sure how to connect the pole ground to the grounding rod. My idea was to just drill a couple of holes and feed the ground through. After I would drop the cord down and attach it to the grounding rod. Let me know if I should reconsider. Thanks

Nik - 11/15/2021​

That sounds reasonable.

Brett - 11/17/2021​

I'd really like one of those bad-ass unicorn shirts!

Nik - 11/17/2021​

I think we got 'em for everyone at my other business; you can buy 'em on Amazon. I may have to start doing GK Merch...

James - 12/30/2021​

Hey Nik, I see many using Lighting Arresters and suffering from the DB loss since the higher quality is more expensive and the more affordable route is usually the chosen. Can you explain to me why one just couldn't use a HomeDepo grounding clamp (Link Below) and wrap that end around the metal base bottom of your antenna and run your 10 gauge wire from there (No Arrester Needed)? Wouldn't it be more advantageous, there is no DB loss, and the path to less resistance (to ground) is increased due to the increased conduction properties of the clamp. In theory or my mind at least, this should dissipate even static electricity just the same. What do you think? https://www.homedepot.com/p/1-2-1-in-Type-JH-Bronze-Ground-Rod-Clamp-for-8-to-4-AWG-Wire-JH-B1-10/203339353

William - 1/2/2022​

Hi Nik, Question about when you ground your outdoor builds. I believe in order to have proper ground it should be an 8-foot pole buried into the ground. Are you able to do this in remote locations or are you using an alternate method of grounding?

Nik - 1/2/2022​

Hi William, I generally don't ground my outdoor builds.

Angel - 1/7/2022​

I’m Going to be running a outdoor POE set up with a M1 sensecap and outdoor HNTenna, I’ve seen conflicting information about whether to ground. For ease I’d like to not have to ground my set up, I see you mentioned you generally don’t ground your outdoor set ups, so would I be good to run it that way? “Safely”?

Angel - 1/7/2022​

Sorry, forgot to add this piece of information. The outdoor sensecap M1 and HNTenna will be a home setup if that makes a difference as far as whether or not I have to ground the set up

Nik - 1/7/2022​

Hi Angel, that's not technically "safe" and you should always ground electronics. I generally don't ground my "off grid" setups, which aren't connected to any buildings. The risk depends on what you've got at stake and the likelihood of getting static build up/discharge.

tixorama - 1/15/2022​

Hey Nik, I've seen setups where the lightning arrestor is not connected directly to the antenna but further down the cable closer to the miner. Is there a preferred way to do it? Thank you. Mark

Nik - 1/15/2022​

Hi Mark, yes, that's the recommended way. I need to update the picture and diagram to reflect that. :)

A Complete Guide on How to Ground Helium Antennas - 7/12/2022​

[…] overthinking it, is the best way. Also, some helium antennas come with a lightning arrestor. A lightning arrestor makes a connection between the antenna cable and the antenna. With this connection, it allows radio […]

John - 11/15/2024​

Nice -- do you ever consider galvanic reactions when you build? I've been trying to factor this in with my builds... here in Japan they sell little separators (I think they are Nylon) that can be popped in between metals with different hardness... Aluminum can be a bad one for this. Nice of you to give your friend a nice Antenna in exchange, and thanks again for info.

Nik - 11/15/2024​

Hey John, I remember wondering about it early on, but my hotspots that are still out in the wild haven't had any issues with it. Might be something way more important in other environments, but I haven't had issues with it yet.

Helium is a gateway into the world of RF, or radio frequency. While the easiest thing to do when you get your hotspot is just plug it in and set it in a window, most of the time you'll earn far more if you optimize a bit. Most of those optimizations are focused on improving the RF signal your hotspot can beacon (also called "transmitting") as well as improving the ability of your hotspot to witness (also called "receiving".)

I'll assume you've read the piece on antennas I wrote that covers some basics. Now, let's do a deeper dive into antennas and radiation patterns.

Let's start with a zero gain omni antenna. An omni directional antenna with zero gain will theoretically radiate RF energy in a perfect globe pattern all around it. Now, that's perfection. In reality, most low gain (say, 4 dBi or lower) antennas will do a pretty good job, but will have gaps directly above and below the antenna.

The way we "see" an antenna's RF pattern is by visualizing what it looks like from the top and the side.

Here's a lower gain antenna's RF pattern.

See how it radiates out evenly in every direction to the side, but directly above and below it there are gaps in the RF emitted? That's pretty typical for an omni directional antenna.

Here's another example from the antenna I use on most of my installs, the HNTenna. MP Antenna (the manufacturer of the HNTenna), puts both patterns together. The Elevation is what it looks like when you're seeing the antenna from the side (red line) and the Azimuth is what it looks like from the top down (blue line).

All manufacturer's will have a radiation pattern for their antenna, and most will share it with you. That pattern can change at different frequencies on the same antenna. Here's an example of a 3.0dBi L-Com at different frequencies.

Now, all the antennas so far look pretty similar even at different frequencies, right? They're all "omni directional" antennas, meaning they're supposed to radiate antenna in all (omni) directions. What does it look like when you get a sector (also called a directional) antenna? Check this out!

This antenna was designed to radiate most of it's energy in a vertical beamwidth of 60 degrees and a horizontal beamwidth of 70 degrees. This is the antenna you'd use if you wanted to punch through a thick brush line with a bunch of Hotspots on the other side of it and nothing behind you.

Antenna Polarization​

Next up is antenna polarization. This hasn't gotten much press, mostly because damn near every antenna you can buy is polarized *vertically*. In simple terms, that means the RF waves it emit go up and down. A *horizontally* polarized antenna will emit RF waves that go side to side.

Why is that important? Well, if a vertically polarized antenna and a horizontally polarized antenna are trying to beacon or witness each other, they won't be able to, even if they're on the same frequency! That's because the "up and down" waves of a VP antenna won't intersect with the "side to side" waves of an HP antenna.

"OK Nik, so why should I care about this? If most of the antennas out there are vertically polarized, I'm fine, right?" Sort of.

See, when that radio energy hits an obstacle, it usually bounces off *and changes orientation*. That means a vertically polarized wave can now be a horizontally polarized one. If your hotspot is "listening" on a vertically polarized antenna, it won't witness RF signals that are coming in on the horizontal plane, unless...

Here's the last twist for ya: You can get a "multi" polarized antenna. This allows you to both transmit and receive multiple signal orientations. That comes at a cost of a slight reduction in power as the signal is radiated out on multiple planes, BUT...I've used a multi-polarized antenna and made 170km witnesses, so it's not an issue in the real world application.

I'll finish off with a quick way to think about what antenna you should buy.

Indoor antenna -- Use the stock antenna. Get it up as high in your building as possible and next to a window. If you MUST buy an indoor antenna, pick up the HNTenna indoor version.

Outdoor antenna, urban area, limited clear lines of sight -- You've got a few options.

HNTenna Outdoor - This is a multi-polarized antenna and what I recommend for most placements.

McGill 3 dBi - A great omni pattern antenna that'll do well in most urban deployments.

McGill 6 dBi - Want to try the middle range, as recommended in this video?

Outdoor antenna - Has Facebook/Reddit/Twitter convinced you that high gain is the best bet? If you're desperate for a "high gain" antenna, get a 9 dBi from McGill.

Brush Penetrator -- Ok, you really want this? Keep in mind, this antenna is almost never the right choice. But since you asked for it, here it is.

That's it! Now you know a bunch more about antenna radiation patterns and how to choose the right one for you. Rock on!

Archived Comments​

Greg - 6/4/2021​

Amazing article again! Is there anything like the HNTenna for the 868 band?

Nik - 6/4/2021​

I'll double check with Adam at MP Antenna (the makers of the HNTenna).

Greg - 6/4/2021​

Don't worry! I emailed and he said, in the future hopefully!

Travis - 6/4/2021​

Nik - badass as usual my man.

Vis - 6/9/2021​

Hi Nik, Is there a 5.8dbi antenna with multi polarisation or 3dbi will be good even for the suburbs where other hotspots are not close

Nik - 6/9/2021​

Vis, MP Antenna is working on a 5.8 version but it'll be a while. They're current antenna will be fine for suburban deployments, just (like very antenna) get it as high as you can.

John - 6/22/2021​

Hey, Quick question, if you already get 25 witnesses on beacon and as high as you can get antenna do different antennas affect witnessing or would that be the same? For example with a HNTenna get more theoretical witness events than a 5.8 dbi antenna in an urban setting? Just never understood that part. Thanks for the great information!

Nik - 6/22/2021​

Hi John, good question. Depending on how many hotspots you have around you, you may see a *different* set of 25 with each beacon. An HNTenna is likely to pick up different witnesses due to the multi-polar receive. I wouldn't expect miracles, but every small improvement counts.

JB - 6/26/2021​

im currently using a Rak 5.8 in the most optimized way I can given my situation. It appears I'm just on the cusp of a connection w/my neighbor, as we connect, but only rarely. They're 2.7 miles away. Do you think the 3dbi multi polar might help or should I wait for the 5.8 to be released. Btw, I've tried an 8dbi Rak and get nothing as I'm in the foothills

Simon Uxbridge - 6/27/2021​

Hi Nik, I have a location halfway up the side of a mountain (2000ft up), with super long views of civilization and will be using the L-Com flat panel which as you say has a vertical beamwidth of 60, and which you advise to aim carefully. I am looking for points on roughly how to aim it. Would you think aiming the centre of the panel at the horizon would be too high? CIvilisation starts about 1 mile away from me

Nik - 6/27/2021​

I'd aim it a little below the horizon, but check the pattern the mrf provides.

Nik - 6/27/2021​

Check Line of Sight, that's probably more of an issue than antenna gain.

What To Look For In A Helium Antenna - One Man's Search - 7/5/2021​

[…] An anten­na for Heli­um should be either ver­ti­cal­ly polar­ized or mul­ti-polar­ized. I’ve writ­ten about anten­na polar­iza­tion in this post on anten­na radi­a­tion pat­terns. […]

Sergio - 8/14/2021​

Hi Nik, If you don’t have direct line of sight due to topography, will the hntenna help? Currently using the 6dbi from McGill but that doesn’t work. Currently can see witnesses far away, but not in the city nearby. https://ibb.co/VJJxb1Q Thanks! Thanks!

Nik - 8/14/2021​

It can, the multi-polarization can help you pick up more signals.

Simon - 9/2/2021​

Hi Nik I’m looking at a picture of an elevation radiation pattern, almost identical to the HNTenna 915 one above. (I can’t add a picture to this comment.) However in this picture the 0 degree point is rotated 90 degrees - so that it lines up with the “dip” in the pattern. Could this antenna: (1) Simply be the same as the HNTenna diagram (and I’m just overthinking it?) (2) Be totally different? (3) Or actually be an error in production of the diagram - so in effect the same? I hope I have explained this clearly? Many thanks. Cheers Simon

Nik - 9/2/2021​

Interesting, what's the antenna?

Simon - 9/2/2021​

Here you go Nik https://www.arcantenna.com/products/laird-antnex-tra9023np-m2m-902-928-mhz-ism-white-low-profile-omni-antenna Data sheet is halfway down the page. Very very similar - slightly smaller & lighter & cost effective. What do you think? Simon

Nik - 9/3/2021​

First responder orgs love those because they're cheap and they "work", though they're definitely not the same antenna as the HNTenna. Remember, antennas don't really matter that much. Try this one, see if it works for you. For me the cost isn't a concern and I'd rather have the best on the market, but it *doesn't make a huge difference.*

Simon - 9/3/2021​

Understood Nik - Many thanks

Chris - 9/7/2021​

Hi Nik, Thanks for the more detailed inside of antennas. I was wondering what to look for in the specs of an antenna to know if it will be suitable for a Helium Hotspot. Does it specifically have to mention/support the LoRa / IOT /Helium technique or will any antenna that support the 868Mhz freq (I live in the Netherlands) work? For example https://poynting.tech/antennas/epnt-1/ or https://poynting.tech/antennas/xpol-1-5g/ Chris

HNTenna - Is it really the best Helium Antenna? | CoinPensation - 9/7/2021​

[…] to Gristleking, a vertical-polarized antenna cannot listen to a horizontal-polarized antenna and vice versa. Even […]

Nik - 9/7/2021​

Doesn't have to mention LoRa/IoT/Helium. That's a huge band the first one is listening on though, and the middle is definitely not 868 so it's probably not very efficient for what you're doing. 617 – 3800 MHz, whew!

Chris - 9/8/2021​

I have seen a hotspot nearby having a Poynting antenna in it setup.It’s behind a window on the first floor with a LongAP hotspot. It has a beaconing average of 800-900 times (7d avg) and does 2-3+HNT per day. I was not sure if the poynting antenna was used for the miner or maybe a LTE router/modem. If used for the hotspot the MiMo technique seems help picknick up a lot of signals.

Nik - 9/8/2021​

Interesting, I'll check out the Poynting. What's the hotspot name? Transmitting 8-900 beacons in 7 days is way over the top, you sure that's not witnessed beacons?

jeff - 9/16/2021​

Hi, not much info about Hntenna , you ordered, all is fine ? with new POC i think this antenna might be a good option, a bit scared to order, I would appreciate it that you confirm if they are legit? thanks

Nik - 9/16/2021​

Hi Jeff, I've ordered and deployed multiple HNTennas. I think they're the best on the market, and an excellent option for most hotspots deployments. High quality, made in Ohio, I've been to their manufacturing plant and met the staff.

Brad - 10/5/2021​

Hey Nik, Any idea how a standard vertically polarized antenna would function if you mounted it at a 45 degree angle to the ground? Would it then function as a multipolarized antenna since the waves would be transmitting and receiving (in theory) partially both vertical and horizontal waves and everything in between? I'm sure that as an antenna's RF is bouncing around the world it's not purely vertical even if it's coming from a vertically mounted antenna, and as you mentioned, it seems that in the real world barring your antenna being in a very flat environment, it seems that RF would be bouncing and bending all over the place the further it got from the antenna and thus would be able to be picked up by an antenna mounted at 45 degrees. Also any idea how ground planes affect a vertically polarized antenna? There's a guy on reddit talking about how he mounted his 4dbi bobcat antenna on a bread pan and it increased his earnings and other people said they tried it and it increased theirs too. I wonder if a ground plane is making the vertical waves at least partially multipolar and thus allowing these antennas to perform better?

Nik - 10/6/2021​

Hi Brad, it would probably function worse. Multipolarization is about multiple angles. For the Bobcat, testing in an RF chamber has shown that a metal plate at the bottom improves antenna performance.

Mike - 10/17/2021​

Great info on the patterns. I have 2 situations I’m where I’m considering the HNTenna and I could use some advice on. 1. Prairie town, I have the high side about 60’ higher in elevation than the rest. 7-9KM to the furthest hotspots. Maybe 60-70 in the area and I witness about 30 with a Rak 5.8 on the peak of my house - 500 yards from me sits a giant brick school though. 3dbi Outdoor Hntenna going to provide any benefit? 2. Host location lower plane of the same town but restricted to indoor only with some line of sight challenges and using a Bobcat stock 4db - Hntenna indoor 3dbi claims it’s good at overcoming some of these challenges - thoughts? Have no issues spending the $ to find out but McGill is also in my considerations.. Thanks, Mike

Nik - 10/17/2021​

Hi Mike, Always hard to say that one antenna will always do super well. I'm putting HNTennas up even on my mountain installs now. I don't think you'll see a huge improvement over the Rak, though you may see a slight one. The HNTenna indoor is supposed to be excellent, but I haven't installed it indoors. I've seen it work well outdoors. You won't go wrong with any of those antennas listed.

Evangelos - 11/14/2021​

Hi Nik, Trying to understand if a directional antenna is beneficial over a omni-directional for a situation where the witnesses are only on one side (180 degrees of hex). I would think an 8dBi directional antenna would reach as far as a 8dBi omni-directional antenna but for only a few degrees. Is this the case or will the directional antenna see further?

Nik - 11/14/2021​

Depends on where you are. In the US there's not a huge advantage with directionals. In the EU it may make more of a difference, all because of how much more dBm the US hotspots push out.

Jim Moran - 11/21/2021​

I'm wondering... If I mount an antenna on my roof near the peak, does it make a difference if only the top of the antenna is above the Ridgeline, or should the full length of the antenna be above the ridgeline? Our HOA doesn't allow mounting an antenna on the roof, but if I mount it with only the tip above the ridgeline, I might be able to get away with it. I ask because I don't know if the antenna sends/receives only from the tip or the full length. I've tried reading everything on your site but cannot find information concerning the tip of the antenna vs. the length of the antenna. Thanks in advance if you choose to answer.

Nik - 11/21/2021​

Full length. Hit 'em with OTARD.

Lukasz - 11/25/2021​

Hey Nik, Question for ya. I've got the choice of mounting an antenna out my window, 3rd story townhouse so approx 9 to 10 meters high mounting point, that faces towards the majority of Hotspots or placing it in the attic space, approx 2 to 3 meters higher than out the window. Not possible to mount on roof due to strata. Suburban area with a not so bad line of sight other than a giant church directly across the street. Any recommendation as to which mounting point and whether a 3dbi or 6dbi would be best?

Nik - 11/25/2021​

I'd go with a 3 dBi outside, but I'd also test it. :)

Robert - 1/15/2022​

What panel antenna are you using on the pictures? I seen many pictures that showcase a panel antenna. Thanks

Nik - 1/15/2022​

Hi Robert, I've used both 9 and 13 dBi antennas in various test deployments. I have one 9 dBi panel left that I just haven't replaced because I haven't made the time to drive over to it.

Mike - 2/4/2022​

Hey Nik, 2 questions. I currently have a 12 foot lmr 400 attached to a 8dbi antenna. If I wanted to go 30 feet high with lmr 400 and stick with 8dbis worth of signal do I go with a 10dbi because of the signal loss? Also a miner just popped up in my hex :( he is still syncing, my rewards are already tanking is there anything I can do or just make my antenna set up significantly better? Thank you!

Nik - 2/4/2022​

Nah, don't worry about offsetting with an 8 dBi and only 30' of LMR400. Enter the loss (about 1.4 dB) and let 'er rip. Nothing you can do about other miners in your hex (outside of filling in surrounding hexes to increase to density_max OR moving.

Mike - 2/4/2022​

Roger that! Thank you for the fast response Nik!!!

Joe Gama - 12/29/2023​

Hi, Your link to the multi-polarized antenna info is no longer valid... Would you, please, post it elsewhere? I'm dying to find out more about it!

Nik - 12/29/2023​

Hey Joe, it was made by MP Antenna, called the HNTenna. You can probably find 'em on eBay.

Here is a step by step method for understanding how to choose the best antenna for your hotspot placement. Each placement demands a well matched antenna in order to provide value to the Helium Network and consequently earn the most HNT possible for that location. Do NOT, by the way, try to get the giant antenna in the picture below. While it looks huge and cool and rad, it is the wrong antenna to use for these deployments. I spent a fair amount of blood and treasure to learn that lesson. You don't need to.

First: Hotspot placement optimization is FAR more important than what antenna you use, more on that here.

Second, for those of you who just want AN ANSWER: Simple: Pick from the McGill selection. They'll all work well.

Put it outdoors at least 10' above all the buildings around you. Run 40' or less of LMR400 cable to it from your hotspot. If you have to go more than 40', use LMR600 if you're feeling extravagant. That'll probably get you 80% of the results you could get with far more effort and expertise.

Wait, you want to actually learn and match your antenna to your situation so you get the maximum rewards possible?

Ok, let's start with broad strokes: The antenna you choose for your hotspot placement should match your topography, your elevation, and your lines of sight.

Let's start with topography. Topography refers to the buildings, earth, and water that surround, channel, and block your radio signals (propagation.) The topic of radio propagation involves a tremendously deep dive all the way down to the fundamentals of physics, but we'll keep it pretty simple.

BLUF (Bottom Line Up Front) - The flatter your topography AND the more trees/vegetation you have blocking your Line of Sight to other hotspots, the higher gain antenna you can use, up to 9 dbi.

Remember, topography isn't just hills and mountains, it includes buildings, trees, and other obstacles.

Ok, let's get dirty! In general, earth in the form of mountains or hills will block radio signals. Even though a hotspot may seem very close to you, if there's a hill between the two of you, you probably won't witness each other.

You may check out your location on the Helium Explorer Coverage map and think you're perfectly positioned in regards to nearby hotspots, like this:

Remember to check Google Earth!

See how that spot is tucked into a bunch of hills? Unless you put up an antenna that'll stick over the top of the hills, you're restricted to witnessing only other hotspots in your immediate area, and in this case, that area is small!

One of the best tools to use when assessing a new site is HeliumVision. Remember, location is FAR more important than antennas. If you'd like to learn more about HeliumVision (I use it in every one of my consults) I've built a Master Class on it, over here.

Ok, so that's earth. Earth = No Radio Waves Getting Through.

What about buildings? How much will buildings block or reduce the power of radio propagation?

According to a study done in 2012 on a wide swath of building materials and focusing on the GSM 900 MHz band, a reinforced concrete wall that is 20cm / ~8" thick will attenuate the signal by 27 dB. An interior plaster wall will reduce power by anywhere from .8 to 3 dB.

What does that mean? Disclaimer: RF geeks, I'ma get loose with terms here. Relax.

This reduction in power is called "attenuation." In general with radio communications, you don't want any attenuation. Attenuation can happen with earth, buildings, forests, and even window coatings. How much power will you lose? Let's run some numbers.

American based hotspots start off by pushing out 27 dBm. European and other areas start WAY lower, at 14. Add the gain (dBi) from your antenna and subtract the losses from any connections to figure out your Effective Isotropic Radiated Power (EIRP).

That means a 6 dBi antenna will give you 33 dBm of EIRP with a US hotspot. 27dBm + 6dBi = 33dBm in the direction of antenna gain. Now you've got to calculate cable and connection loss.

As a rough rule of thumb, each connection (hotspot to antenna cable, antenna cable to antenna, or going through an enclosure wall using a connector) will drop your EIRP by .5 dB. Cable losses vary by cable, which is why most people use a "low loss" cable like LMR400. If you want to run your EIRP numbers, here's how.

Ok, ok, ok, why does it matter whether or not you know your EIRP?

Let's take a short detour into dBm and power. dBm is based on a logarithmic scale. For every increase of 3 dBm, there is twice as much power output. Every increase of 10 dBm has a tenfold increase in power. The difference between a 3 dBi antenna (what most hotspots ship with) and an aftermarket 9 dBi antenna is a factor of 4!

Of course, that 4x power comes at a cost; the beam is focused; more laser and less lightbulb. That means that unless you aim your antenna very carefully, you can blast all that power into places that have no hotspots.

Here is a great example demonstrating attenuation and topography. This hotspot is placed on the north side inside a building. It's up high with a higher gain antenna, and in general, inaccurately aimed over most of the nearby hotspots.

Most of the witnesses it's getting are further north. Some of the signals bounce off to the side, proving that "RF is weird."

To the south, the signals are blocked or attenuated by interior and exterior walls, but apparently there is a small window or opening where those weakened signals are escaping, then going pretty far over the water. Pretty neat, right? I mean, not for the hotspot owner, but it's a neat demonstration of the concept.

That image is also a great example of why you should never put a hotspot antenna inside; you are losing a ton of power before the radio waves ever get outside the building.

Water allows radio signals to travel much further than normal; look at any hotspot next to a body of water and you'll see it will connect with other hotspots at much further ranges across the water than it will across land.

Let's not get too into the weeds here. As I said at the beginning, the general rule for topography is this: The flatter your topography, the higher gain antenna you can use, up to 9 dBi for 95% of placements. Beyond 9 the pattern generally gets too precise to provide the Wide coverage (the W in WUPU) that we want.

Remember, topography includes not just hills, mountains, and water, but all the buildings, bridges, and other structures that might block your radio signal. Cities in general do not have a flat topography, even if they're built on flat land. All those spiky buildings sticking out will gobble up your radio signals.

That brings us to ELEVATION. If you want to bend your mind a little bit, think about this: The higher your elevation, the flatter the relative topography is, and the LOWER dbi antenna you can use. Wait, what?

Remember, a high dbi antenna focuses the signal of your antenna. In an omni antenna (we'll get to directional or sector antennas in a minute), that shape becomes a flatter and flatter plane. If that plane is super flat, it'll fly right over the tops of all those hotspots you want to hit. Let's go through 3 examples.

Now, those aren't how it *actually* works. The gain patterns are nowhere near as different, and a high gain antenna will STILL hit the ground within 1,000' of even a 100' building. Still, you can see why in *most* cases, you want a low or medium gain antenna up high.

You can also run that idea backwards; if you're in a really flat area where you don't have a lot of obstacles, a high gain antenna might be your best bet. Still, most people don't live in the desert, and the flattest state in America has a ton of trees on it. If that's your scenario, get a high gain (6-9 dBi) antenna up over the tops of those trees for maximum coverage.

That brings us in a roundabout way to Lines of Sight. Remember that $39 paper I quoted earlier regarding how much RF energy a given building material would absorb? The general takeaway for us Helium Hotspot owners is this: Our antennas won't blast through much more than 2 buildings.

That means if you're INSIDE the building, you've burned most of the energy of the antenna just getting outside the walls. If it hits just one more "thing", whether it's a building, a tree, or a billboard, that's probably the end of the line.

This "Lines of Sight" idea has an important implication in understanding how some of the top earning hotspot/antenna combos are doing so well. The hotspot Docile Bone Pony* (when this was written, one of the highest earners in the world) is on top of a 16 story building in a major city with a medium/high gain antenna (8 dbi from eBay on 60' of LMR400.) It has Lines of Sight to a lot of other hotspots, BUT those other hotspots don't have great lines of sight to other hotspots around 'em.

That means that DBP is seeing a lot of hotspots that AREN'T seeing a lot of hotspots. I'm going to anthropomorphize this a bit, but their only option is to communicate with DBP. So they do. And DBP earns like crazy. It's an example of the incredible earning potential that exists when providing asymmetric value to the network.

While we're on Lines of Sight, let's talk about the range of a standard hotspot. According to some excellent work done by the inimitable @para1 on Discord, most hotspots do most of their witnessing within a 10km range. Now, an in depth discussion of the implications and restrictions of this table is beyond the scope of this article, but your general takeaway should be "Optimize your antenna for hotpots within 10 km" aka most people don't need a high gain antenna.

@para1's table, posted in Discord

I'll double tap this range thing with an example of a hotspot I run, which has a 3 dBi HNTenna on top of a 20' pole on top of a ~30' building. It *routinely* gets witnesses over 200km away. While it seems that a high gain antenna will get you better range, it doesn't really matter. It's Line of Sight that is the secret here.

Finally, Lines of Sight can be blocked by forests. Depending on who you listen to, LoRa doesn't go through much more than 60 meters of dense forest. I'm sorry rural Florida, you've just got a tough row to hoe on that one. Dense forest in between you and other antennas is about the only time a higher gain (up to 9 dBi) makes sense, and even then it may not make a giant difference. Forests are RF sinks.

There is one more thing to think about with Lines of Sight. The 900 MHz frequency needs some runway, ideally 50'/15m to fan out enough to diffract around obstacles. Read that again and you'll have an advantage over everyone who doesn't get that concept.

The concept of Fresnel zones and diffraction in radio wave communication is one of the fundamental drivers of the "RF is weird" refrain you'll hear whenever you see a pattern that doesn't immediately make sense. Basically, the further out your radio waves go, the more they can spread out along their radiation pattern, the less likely that all of the waves get blocked, and the more likely that at least some of 'em will get to another hotspot.

At some distance they're so spread out that you're basically not going to make a connection, so the effective "window" shrinks back down. Like this:

Check out RadioMobile to get deep on Fresnel zones.

If you set up your antenna so that you've got lots of clear space around it before it hits obstacles, those radios waves have enough spread to start "bending around" those obstacles. This is yet another reason not to set up inside.

Here's another "I definitely didn't go to art school" drawing to demonstrate the idea of runway and diffraction.

If you give those radio waves some room to spread out, they can get around obstacles. Let 'em breathe!

Ok, we've got one more thing to consider before wrapping up. Many of you will have been scouring ham radio sites to figure out how to improve the range of your antenna. Keep in mind that the goal of many ham radio operators is incredible range, but that can come at the cost of broad coverage. Doing exactly what a ham operator does may give you the results they want, not what you want.

YOU want to hit as many high scale hotspots as possible. You'll usually do that by using a low gain antenna up high, with clear lines of sight all around.

Remember, you'll earn the most by delivering the most valuable & provable coverage to the network. The concept is simple. The execution can be complicated. If you want help with getting the maximum value out of your placements or strategy, I'm available for hire.

For those of you who skipped all that and just want to know what antenna to get, here are 4 generally good options for the 3 most common scenarios.

1. In a building in the city? Get an outdoor HNTenna or a McGill in the 3-6 dBi range, put it outside up as high as you can.
2. In a building where you just can't get up high? Use the stock antenna that came with your hotspot. Also, find a better placement location. You did read about that, right?
3. In a suburban house? Get either the HNTenna or a McGill in the 3-6 dBi range and put it on a pole outside and up high.
4. On a mountain where you can't possible transmit behind you (because the mountain will block your signal) and you have an enormous view of civilization and your nearest hotspot is more than 5 miles away? Try a 8-9 dBi patch antenna, like these.

I'll round this out with what to definitely NOT do. Don't just look at the gain of an antenna and think higher is better. Don't bother with Yagi antennas. Finally, don't worry too much about your antenna. In the big picture of earnings, it is FAR more important to have good placement and elevation. The fanciest, coolest, most high tech antenna in the world won't get you much if you're in a crappy location down low.

Best of luck with your placement and earnings, I'm stoked to be a part of this amazing community! If you’re looking for work in the Helium ecosystem, check out  Helium Jobs. You can post and find jobs there, help support the ecosystem by making it easier to connect professionally, and let the world know that YOU exist and want to help contribute within the Network. Rock on!

Resources and Further Reading​

A deeper dive into understanding how RF works.

Calculating RF Power Values (explains why a 6 dBi antenna doubles your power)

900 MHz: The Wireless Workhorse. (Probably why Helium chose LoRa)

List of Helium Hotspots & Their Antennas​

Before you read this and assume that you must have a high gain antenna in order to get great earnings, please keep in mind that these hotspot owners are generally tinkerers and often have some expertise in RF theory. The results are a little skewed because of that.

UPDATE: HeliumVision now reports this for all hotspot owners who have entered this on Helium app. I've closed submissions on this page.

Docile Bone Pony - Elevation: 16 stories, Area: Greater Boston, MA. Antenna: 8 dbi omni from eBay, Cables: 60' of LMR400

Sweet Sage Pike - Elevation: 43' above ground, Area: San Diego, CA. Antenna: Nearson 9, Cables: 5' of LMR400

Chilly Blood Mongoose - Elevation: 41' above ground, Area: San Diego, CA. Antenna: Laird FG9026 (6 dbi), Cables: 5' of LMR400

Lucky Menthol Wasp - Elevation: 60' above ground, Area: San Diego, CA. Antenna: RAK 5.8 dbi, Cables: 11' LMR400

Nice Lipstick Chimpanzee - Elevation: 25' above ground, Area: San Francisco, CA. Antenna: RFMAX | ROSA-900-SNF, Cables: 5' LMR240

Interesting Pearl Starling - Elevation: 35' above ground, Area: North Shore, MA. Antenna: RAK 5.8 dbi, Cables: RAK pigtail interface converter bundled with antenna

Jumpy Iron Ferret - Elevation: 34th story, Area: Chicago, IL. Antenna: Stock, Cables: N/A. Indoor setup.

Kind Infrared Lynx - Elevation: 15' above ground, Area: Denver, CO. Antenna: Taoglas 8 dbi. Cables: 15' LMR400

Lucky Dijon Scallop - Elevation: 33' above ground. Area: Englewood, CO. Antenna: RAK 8 dbi. Cables: RAK pigtail cable

Sticky Pear Dolphin - Elevation: 311' above ground (mountain). Area: San Francisco, CA. Antenna: Oukeione 3 dbi. Cables: Bingfu

Petite Menthol Leopard - Elevation 25'. Area: Napa, CA. Antenna: 5.8 RAK. Cables: Bingfu

Best Tangerine Racoon - Elevation: Second Floor Window. Area: Bayonne, NJ Antenna: Stock 3 dBi Cables: 1m pigtail

Warm Juniper Panther - Elevation: 4th floor rooftop. Area: Bayonne, NJ Antenna: Nearson 9 dBi. Cables: 4' LMR400

Scrawny Eggplant Panda - Elevation: 35' Area: Lakewood, OH Antenna 4 dBi Multipole Cables: N/A

Ancient Cider Grasshopper - Elevation: 40' Area: Kansas City, MO Antenna: RAK Wireless 8 dBi Cables: 30' LMR400

Oblong Slate Platypus - Elevation: 400' Area: New York City, NY Antenna: Proxicast 10 dBi Cables: LMR400

Ripe Banana Goblin - Elevation: 2nd floor window Area: Vancouver, BC Antenna: Stock 3 dBi Cables: N/A

Trendy Rainbow Lizard - Elevation: 1st floor window Area: Vancouver, BC Antenna: Stock 3 dBi Cables: N/A

Striped Pewter Osprey - Elevation: 20' Area: Los Angeles, CA Antenna: RAk 5.8 Cables: LMR400

Archived Comments​

Helium, Explained (ELI5) | One man's search - 4/4/2021​

[…] HUNDRED DOLLARS to spend! I want to make the MOST mon­ey. Ok, ok, relax. Read this arti­cle on how to match your Heli­um hotspot place­ment with your anten­na. Buy any of the anten­nas that Par­ley­Labs sells. That’ll prob­a­bly make you feel bet­ter […]

A Rough Guide To Helium Hotspot Placement | One man's search - 4/4/2021​

[…] can read this in-depth arti­cle on how to match your place­ment with an anten­na, but you’ve basi­cal­ly got 3 […]

How to take your Helium Hotspot off grid | One man's search - 4/4/2021​

[…] from my expe­ri­ence and stick with a more appro­pri­ate anten­na. You’ll prob­a­bly nev­er thank me because you won’t know the ass-pain you’re miss­ing, […]

John - 4/6/2021​

Hello there, I would like to ask you what antenna would best suit my future Hotspot. I'm in Toronto Ontario, 12th floor in a building of 20 floors. What is the best antenna for a balcony with nothing in front of me facing an open area. With only with very low houses.

Nik - 4/6/2021​

Hi John, you might want a directional, though an omni would probably be cheaper & easier and less fidgety while being (in most cases) just as good. Really depends on local topography and density. This article should have pointed you in the right direction. If you need more help, I'm available for hire.

The Top 5 Mistakes to avoid with your Helium Hotspot | One man's search - 4/8/2021​

[…] go through some vari­a­tion of “What’s the best anten­na, mon­ey is no object?” Please read the post on anten­nas to learn why that’s not a high-earn­ing […]

Leon - 4/10/2021​

Hello Nik, Wonderful article. I'm in Europe so does that mean I need to have a higher db antenna to get similar results? (European and other areas start lower, at 14. Add the gain (dBi) from your antenna and subtract the losses from any connections to figure out your Effective Isotropic Radiated Power (EIRP). And do you have any recommended antennas like the 1 you're using but for European frequency?

Nik - 4/10/2021​

Hi Leon, thanks. Nope, you're restricted by Euro law to lower power settings. Don't sweat it too much, just look for an antenna appropriate for your setup. Usually a 5-6 dBi omni is your best bet.

John Watkins - 4/11/2021​

Your article was very helpful as it wasn't too technical for the average hotspot owner. I have been experimenting with my setup a little. One thing your article didn't address is the effect the antigaming measures have on invalidating witnesses because your signal is too strong. Inside stock antenna, I can witness 3 hotspots and my closest is invalid at 360m. I put a 5.8dbi on my roof so it is now 35' above ground. Now, all of the hotspots I witnessed before are invalid most of the time with high SNR. I picked up some additional so it is pretty much a wash as far as rewards. It has been suggested that I put up a 3dbi to lessen invalids closer to me. An alternative would be put up an 8dbi to pick up more further hotspots and write off the closer ones. I have a bunch more on order and want to maximize things like everyone else. The 1 I have now is Blurry Viridian Goldfish. I have a 3dbi and 8dbi on order. Thanks!

Nik - 4/11/2021​

Right on. Sounds like the stock up high will be a better option, especially if you have a ton of hotspots close enough to hit with that "general" 3dBi pattern (say, 8-10 km). You're spot on re. anti-gaming which is in general why I wrote the article; too many people think "higher dBi = better antenna" and it's just not the case, for multiple reasons. One thing to think about is that your HS is processing zero data transfer. Anecdotally that results in lower earnings. Pro tip: Add a Helium sensor nearby to track something you might be interested in, which will start pushing data through and make your HS nominally more useful. Remember, an HS is most valuable when it's providing coverage that meets all 4 of the following: 1) Wide 2) Useful 3) Provable 4) Unique. #wupu

Jimmy - 4/22/2021​

any recommendation for antenna around Manhattan or NYC in general? if i use the antenna that came with it, would it still be profitable or is it something i should spend extra bucks for antenna? thanks

Nik - 4/22/2021​

Hi Jimmy, The short version is that Manhattan isn't a great place to put in a hotspot, it's already well covered. The only reason would be if you have access to the top (roof top) of one of the highest buildings and can execute a Canyons & Crags strategy. If that's the case, you'd still want to stay under 8 dBi.

Action Jackson - 4/25/2021​

Hi Nik Thanks for explaining in detail. I'm new into all this and waiting on my shipment of 2 nebra, I saw all these people posting videos of supercharging, and thought of digging up some more info. Im in Richmond BC Can. Right next to the river, on the other side is Van. And van side is on a high stretching out in higher elevation. Which dbi will u recommend? 5.8? 6?7?8

Nik - 4/25/2021​

Hi Action Jackson :). The 5.8 is fine for most installments. Supercharging sounds like fizzy marketing, there's not really anything you can do on the hardware side that'll make a difference.

Stephen Refsnes - 4/25/2021​

Love this Article, its amazing, THANK YOU! I was just wondering how long antenna-cable can i have from my hotspot to my 5.8 dBi antenna, without losing its signal/power or what i should call it. Thanks!

Nik - 4/25/2021​

Thank you Stephen. Up to 60' of LMR400 has been tested and works well, scroll down to the bottom of the article for example setups.

Stephen Refsnes - 4/26/2021​

Can i ask one more question? I found a 33 foot RP-SMA cable here in Norway, Its a RG316, low signal loss, 50 ?. Will this cable not work as good as your LMR400, or is it almost the same cable? :) Thanks!

Nik - 4/26/2021​

Sure. LMR400 will be a better choice, with attenuation (loss) of 3.9 dB/100 feet. RG316 isn't the right cable to use, loss will be 27.2 dB/100'. These guys say they ship Helium specific cables throughout Europe.

RynoShark - 4/26/2021​

If you are on the shore of a big lake with few hotspots on your side, but many numbers 5-10 miles away in line of site, would a high-gain antenna make more sense? It seems like a high gain, 50-100' off the surface of the water would make sense. Then perhaps find a location nearby (900 ft+ away) to install a separate short gain miner to capitalize on providing better local network service in the long term.

Nik - 4/26/2021​

Maybe, though it wouldn't have to be super high gain. 5.8 dBi should be fine. LoRa goes a long way. :)

Dylan - 4/27/2021​

Hi, I live in the Netherlands and is very flat over here, there are a lot of building tho, Can I use a 8dbi omni antenna if i place at the window? I want to use this antenna: https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B017RMFY2W/ref=ox\_sc\_act\_title\_1?smid=A23O0K3F9INFH2&psc=1 (translate it from German to English) Do you think it is any good? I want to place one at a window on the 3th floor and one somewhere else on the 5th floor Thank You for your answer, Dylan

Nik - 4/27/2021​

Dylan, you *can* use that antenna, but if you put your efforts into getting the antenna outside you'll be able to provide much better coverage than focusing on what antenna to buy.

Ri?ards Eglitis - 4/27/2021​

Just wanted to say big thanks for the investment in this artickle!

Linus - 4/29/2021​

Hi, I ordered a Bobcat miner 300. Do you have any recommendations for antennas for this miner? LG

Nik - 4/29/2021​

Will totally depend on your deployment. *Most* of the time you'll be fine with a stock antenna, and it's usually pretty easy/cheap to swap out antennas.

Mano - 4/29/2021​

Hi Nik, Thank you for sharing your expertise. I live in rural area with the ocean just a 30 second drive from me. I am on a hill which allows me to get a panoramic oceanview. There are 3 hotspots 3.7 miles from me. I don't think there is any major obstruction between my house and the hotspots. Should I start with the stock antenna or get the 5.8 dbi? Also, what is a good 5.8 dbi cable for Bobcat. I am waiting for my miners to arrive but will definitely hire you for more advise. Cheers

Nik - 4/29/2021​

Hi Mano, With a panoramic view and HS within 5 miles the stock antenna will be fine to start with. If you want to fiddle with it you can pickup a 5.8 dBi or lower, but there’s no huge need. Biggest step will be making sure your HS is outside.

Adrian - 4/30/2021​

Hello living in a house in toronto ontario, what antenna should i get? only one floor + basement and my setup would be basement.

Paul - 5/1/2021​

Great article, thanks! I’m located on a hill (80m), about 4km from the nearby town. All the hotspots I’m likely to connect to will be in the town, roughly within a 60 degree arc, between 4-10km distant. Is my best bet an 8dbi omnidirectional antenna, or is there something directional that might work better? Thanks.

Nik - 5/1/2021​

Hi Paul, your best bet with that distance and elevation is a lower gain antenna. At 8 dBi you're more likely to break the RSSI/SNR boundaries Helium has set, resulting in invalid witnesses and lower earnings. You could do a directional antenna, but the omnis will work well and are usually easier to install.

Nik - 5/1/2021​

Adrian, start by reading this article.

john dunne - 5/2/2021​

Great article, Thank you for your help! Can you lower your high dbi antenna to perform like a lower abi antenna? For example if you bought a 10dbi antenna but wanted a 8dbi signal instead will using the "cable loss formula" help bring your antenna down to perform like a normal 8dbi antenna?? So a 12dbi antenna with 32 ft of rg58 will perform like 7ish dbi antenna? Thank you!! John

Nik - 5/2/2021​

It'll have the same radiation pattern, just won't go as far. I'm not sure why you'd want that.

Post - 5/2/2021​

This is a great resource. Thanks for sharing. I recently got an installed an antenna based on this information. Aside from (hopefully) seeing higher rewards, how can I know that my setup is better than the stock setup? Is there somewhere on Explorer I should be looking?

AM - 5/3/2021​

Hey Nik, thanks, this is a very useful article. I am based in London UK and have access to the roof of our apartment block, which is 20m high. I intend to position the hotspot on the chimney with a powered cable running to the router. Mainly to get additional height I was going to get a 5.8dBi antenna, does this sound about right, or should I stick with 3dBi antenna? Thanks in advance

misk - 5/3/2021​

I will use three devices 1 kilo apart, but the devices will be inside homes. Do you think things will be good with the attached antenna 4dbi bobcat

Nik - 5/3/2021​

Not really, that's one of the things with antennas; you don't *really* know if it worked until you watch the earnings for a while. Usually 7 day is the minimum, although if you have radical differences that last at least 4 days that's a pretty strong indication as well. Great work on getting an antenna up!

Nik - 5/3/2021​

Depends on how much higher you'll be than HS around you. If you're way higher and want to really reach out, the 5.8 might be a better bet, but I'd probably go with stock just to get that "globe" radiation pattern in the city.

Nik - 5/3/2021​

Probably. Depends on what the actual Line of Sight is. Almost always better to get 'em outside.

Aaron Gooch - 5/3/2021​

Hi NIK, which antenna would you recommend for a hotspot located in a suburban environment with many many tall pine trees surrounding all of the houses. I'm only going to be able to elevate the antenna to about 20-30 feet which is well below the tree line. The only thing I can find in stock at a decent price is an 8 dbi Rak antenna. Will this help penetrate the forest around me? I also ordered a 5.8 direct from Rak but no telling when it will arrive. Thanks!

Nik - 5/3/2021​

The RAK 8 should be OK. Antennas are relatively cheap compared to earnings, so it's usually OK to buy one and if it doesn't work you can switch it out. Keep me posted on how it goes, I'm curious about real-world forest penetration at these freqs.

Aaron Gooch - 5/3/2021​

Sounds good. I'll be back in a couple of weeks with an update.

AG - 5/3/2021​

Nik, will you look at Pet Brunette Elephant and tell me how you think this hotspot owner is doing this? This hot spot is about 1.5 miles due south of my soon to be location. Thanks

lucy osinski - 5/3/2021​

Amazing article and information wow thank you! I live in Santa Monica pretty high up far from hills in a suburban area. Can't decide between a 5.8 or 8dbi , any advice?

Nik - 5/3/2021​

Looks like a directional antenna to me. I'd go with an omni if I were you, unless you're backed up to a hill with no over the back.

Nik - 5/3/2021​

Hi Lucy, go with the 5.8. :). That's usually the best answer, though it can depend on how far away you are and what is in the way and what's behind you.

Todd Wise - 5/4/2021​

Nik, this is the best info I've found! Thank you! I purchased a BOBCAT MINER 300, my terrain is relatively flat with the nearest hotspots about 7km away. Not sure if I should get a 5.8 or 8dbi omni?

Nik - 5/4/2021​

Hi Todd, glad you're finding it useful. Either one should work pretty well, I'd go with the 5.8 just to avoid any potential clipping from being outside the RSSI/SNR parameters Helium has. Technically I'd probably buy both and test 'em, but that's just me. :)

Oreoninja - 5/5/2021​

Hey Nik. Appreciate the useful info. I've added 2 of my hotspots to the list form to help the community. If the House WiFi isn't strong enough to get to the hotspot, do you think it'd be better to get a repeater/extender and hope to tacklet it or get a portable wifi usb hotspot? A portable wifi hotspot would cost ~$60 to buy and ~$50/month to run (Canadian data providers are expensive)

Nik - 5/5/2021​

Interesting, I'm not sure about the extender. In general I avoid WiFi connections to hotspots at (most) costs. If you try it please let me know how it goes!

Doug - 5/6/2021​

Nik, I've got a white 5.8 on the way. Will it be ok for me to paint blacK? Everything I've read about painting antennas says to you paints with no metalic properties so I'd definitely do that. I live in a neighborhood with a very strict HOA so I'm trying to keep it as discreet as possible. Thanks

Nik - 5/6/2021​

Doug, shouldn't be a problem as long as the paint doesn't have any metal in it.

dominick dercole - 5/8/2021​

anyone using an 18dbi?

Nik - 5/8/2021​

Sure hope not, that'd be illegal in the US plus way too high for any profitable use.

Galen Schlich - 5/12/2021​

Thank you for all of this great info.

Calvin - 5/12/2021​

Hi Nik, I am going to place my hotspots on the top of a hill (~50m elevation) and top of a high-rise apartment (~120m elevation), should I stick with the stock 4.2 dbi antenna (Bobcat miner) or upgrade to the 5.8 dbi RAK? Given the high elevation I am worried that the latter might cause me to miss too many low elevation hotspots. What do you think? I live in China so the frequency there is 470mHz. Thanks

Douglas Johnson - 5/13/2021​

I live in a community with a strict HOA so I am trying to be discreet. I will be mounting my 5.8dbi antenna on the side of the house up close to the roof line. It will be positioned parallel to the house about 2 inches away from the vinyl siding. Is two inches enough space or does it need to be positioned further away from the house? Remember, trying to be discreet.

Nik - 5/13/2021​

Hi Calvin, you'll probably be fine with the stock. Depends on how far away other miners are, but usually the stock antenna works very well.

Nik - 5/13/2021​

The further away the better, but sounds like you're constrained by HOA. Look into OTARD, you may have more leeway than you think.

Chance Carpenter - 5/13/2021​

Hi Nik, I recently set up Jumpy Fern Copperhead in Scottsdale AZ. I placed the RAK in a custom-modified outdoor enclosure and purchased a 5.8dbi fiberglass antenna and 25' LMR-400 cable with .96dbi loss. It's mounted on a pine tree next to our house. The antenna is mounted to a 1" schedule 40 PVC that's about 15' long and that is mounted to the trunk of the tree. The antenna peaks above the top of the canopy about 2' and is pretty much vertical and at around 30' off the ground. I'm currently seeing 10 witnesses and earnings are decent at around 35 HNT per week so far. I'm not unhappy with that but what I'm noticing is that I'm hitting some witnesses that are really quite far away (one is nearly 50km) and missing a TON that are quite nearby. This makes me presume that this configuration is 'shooting over the top' of those nearby hotspots. That said, in looking at Helium.Vision I am noticing that a bunch of those nearby hotspots are online but not really connected to other hotspots near them and aren't earning much HNT at all. This makes me assume they just set them up in a windowsill and are hoping for the best (which is what I basically had to do for the first week while I waited for my antenna and cable arrived). So I've purchased a 40CM long fiberglass antenna that is 3.0dbi and am considering swapping out the 5.8 for the 3.0 and seeing if that allows me to connect to more of those that are closer. I also have 10 more Bobcat hotspots on order and plan to position them near-ish to my home and want to make sure I can connect to them. Does this make sense? I'd greatly appreciate any input. Thanks for publishing ALL this GREAT content and breaking it down for us Nubes. Your writing is succinct and clear and I really appreciate all the links to great resources and the research you've provided here for FREE. I'd also love to learn more about how to leverage and USE the network - not just provide it and earn from it. Any tips on that would also be appreciated.

Nik - 5/13/2021​

Chance, sounds like a good plan to drop the gain down and "globe out" the pattern. I'd also think about buying/building a mapper and driving around to map near those other HS, just to see if they're actually working. You can buy an Adeunis (pricey and fragile, it's what I have but not recommended), a GLAMOS Walker (the current hotness, probably a little tweaky but a far better option than the Adeunis) or build your own (easily the coolest option.) Let me know what you find!

Calvin - 5/13/2021​

Thanks a lot Nik. Also if I were to mount the antenna outside the window on my apartment (48th floor, top floor is 56) , would I then be just capturing only the hotspots on the direction that the windows is facing (as opposed to 360 degree with placing the antenna up high on the top of the apartment)? Thanks again, Calvin

Nik - 5/14/2021​

Hi Calvin, when you say "on top" of the apartment, does that mean on top of the building or just up high in your apartment? On top of the building will be the preferred placement, but if you can't get that then getting it outside the window should be the next best option for you.

Brandon - 5/14/2021​

Have you seen any fiberglass antennas attached to a chimney? If so, any suggestions on attaching? That would be the highest spot on my house.

Nik - 5/14/2021​

Yep, plenty of 'em. Look for a "chimney Y mount" and use a pole to get it higher. Rock on!

Martin - 5/19/2021​

Hi there, I’m thinking about installing my outdoor nebra miner With a 5.8 DBI Antenna. I’m wondering, if you have any insight. This would be in a densely populated area in Santa Clara County. It will be installed on the second floor of my house. Do you think I could make more if I was to install a 3DBI antenna instead? Any advice would be greatly appreciated, cheers

Nik - 5/19/2021​

Probably not a huge difference between the two, although that can depend on the install a bit. I'd test 'em both just to be sure, but I bet you won't see a huge difference.

Kenny - 5/22/2021​

Hi Nik, This is a great article, helped a lot to get a clue how this works. Im in the UK, and waiting for my bobcat miner 300. The area where I live is suburban with common 2 floor houses, but there are not too many HS around me. I beleive I would go with the 5.8dbi antenna, but couldn't find any of those you mentioned and in stock (5.8dbi, eu868, for outdoor use). I would appreciate if you could send me a link about a great example. Many thanks

Kenny - 5/22/2021​

I mean all I found is for pre order, and none of them are the same as what you mentioned and nonone has them in stock.

Nik - 5/22/2021​

Right on Kenny, glad it helped. This is my go-to antenna for 95% of all deployments going forward, though I'm not sure what shipping will be from the US to UK.

Kenny - 5/23/2021​

Thank you for your answer. Do you think it is also a good choice? https://m.aliexpress.com/item/1005001830636995.html?spm=a2g0n.detail.0.0.1efbK5dkK5dktY&gps-id=storeRecommendH5&scm=1007.18500.187585.0&scm\_id=1007.18500.187585.0&scm-url=1007.18500.187585.0&pvid=15c0f474-a313-4bf1-bbee-f82aca972736&\_t=gps-id%3AstoreRecommendH5%2Cscm-url%3A1007.18500.187585.0%2Cpvid%3A15c0f474-a313-4bf1-bbee-f82aca972736%2Ctpp\_buckets%3A668%230%23131923%2322\_668%230%23131923%2322\_668%23888%233325%2310\_668%23888%233325%2310\_668%232846%238113%231998\_668%235811%2327182%2352\_668%232717%237567%23937\_\_668%233374%2315176%23832\_668%232846%238113%231998\_668%235811%2327182%2352\_668%232717%237567%23937\_668%233164%239976%23485\_668%233374%2315176%23832&browser\_id=3f4615d320884e65a7708e05c0e44033&aff\_trace\_key=eb5d1953c7c44735b229191673177008-1621767818556-04622-UneMJZVf&aff\_platform=msite&m\_page\_id=wqiqgsptyjwcavid17998e6221419fff680bc7a498&gclid=CjwKCAjw-qeFBhAsEiwA2G7Nl-RTd4OiIMNxa74MWiToCeojecV6q-TxIAmczvMopChAsDhrT5GUcRoCzWgQAvD\_BwE

Nik - 5/23/2021​

Sure.

matt - 5/24/2021​

Hey Nic. I live on a mountain or large hill, about 200m above sea level there are lot of trees around. Around 5km from me the hill drops down to a large city. Do you think it would be possible to hit any hotspots down there and if so what would be the best set up? Thanks in advanced.

Nik - 5/24/2021​

Hey Matt, probably. Check it on HeliumVision, you can run an RF simulation from your proposed spot and have a pretty good idea of what you'll hit. Rock on!

Rudolph - 5/26/2021​

Nik, Thank you for the excellent articles and response to questions. I’m going to mount an antenna on the roof of my apartment (outside) but the nearest hotspot is 2miles away, and I’d really like to hit some more in the 5mi range. Is your recommended antenna still appropriate in that situation, or would a higher dbi rating be better?

Rudolph - 5/26/2021​

By the way, those mountains look familiar, are you the venerable Atomic Vanilla Locust?

Robert Engelbrecht - 5/26/2021​

Nik. I'm 60' up on top of a small condo building ( Amusing Pistachio Python, Bobcat 300 + supplied antenna ). What would your fave ANT-NH900-OUT have as possible advantage/s ?. Thank you for all the valuable info you share with us ! !

Nik - 5/26/2021​

Nope, that's another hs owner. I've got Amateur Jade Hare. :)

Nik - 5/26/2021​

The HNTenna will be your best bet. I've got one that's hitting over 100 km shots. It's all about antenna elevation & line of sight, not about gain.

Nik - 5/26/2021​

Should work as well or better than any other antenna out there. That's what I'm using on all my setups going forward.

Chase - 5/26/2021​

Hi Nik, thank you for all of the great insights. I'm considering a Bobcat miner that comes with a 4dbi antenna, but based on your research, I realize a 5.8 - 8 dbi antenna could yield better earnings. My apartment building is a hollow rectangle. I live on the 2nd floor (14 ft from the ground) with a balcony that faces inward. If I set up my miner on the top 4th floor, unless there's a way to lock the cables, its fate would be left to chance that the apartment staff overlook it AND no one steals it, but up there it would face outward and would have plenty of room to diffract properly. With one nearby hotspot within 81m of my address and 6 others roughly between 500m - 1km away, would it be reasonable to expect significantly different results if it faced the inside of my building vs. the 4th floor facing outward?

Nik - 5/26/2021​

Always better with clear LoS, but you can't always get that. This might be an instance where the HNTenna will really shine.

Robert Engelbrecht - 5/27/2021​

Can you suggest another antenna other than your fave ANT-NH900-OUT ? They don't seem able or prepared to ship to Canada

Nik - 5/27/2021​

Hi Robert, Sure, try this Laird.

Robert - 5/27/2021​

Thanks Nik. I already have Parleylabs 5.8dBi & 8Bbi antennas here ( https://shop.parleylabs.com/products/rak-fiber-glass-lorawan-antenna-us915?variant=37264623468723 ) . Would they be much worse than the Laird you suggested ?

Nik - 5/27/2021​

Nope, about the same.

Lynn - 5/28/2021​

Thanks for helping all of us. Very kind

Kevin - 6/1/2021​

Nik, Thank you for all your insight. I have 2 RAK and 4 BobCat's on order and plan on deploying them in a town of 125k with only one existing hotspot currently. All placements will be on home rooftops. I plan on mounting a 20' antenna to the chimney with the Miner and Hotspot in a weather proof box at the base and good cable up to antennas. Having read some of your advice I understand the benefit of the hotspot being w/in 5' of the antenna, however, this area has sporadic high winds and ant extra weight up high is an issue. Is the signal loss preventable with better cable? Or is there another direction I should look into/

Nik - 6/1/2021​

Don't sweat 20' if you're using LMR400 cable.

J - 6/3/2021​

I am looking at the HNTENNA, however I dont see anywhere where it mounts? The pictures just show it kind of floating, and I am trying to purchase all matching parts at once and am not sure what kind of mount or pole is needed.

Nik - 6/3/2021​

It mounts to a right angle bar that comes with the package. You mount the bar to the pole, it has a flat part that sticks out at 90. The HNTenna mounts on that.

Nate - 6/3/2021​

Hey Nik, really appreciate you and these articles. I'm in a building, urban setting, 8th floor, but on a hill so I'm higher than everything for hundreds of meters in front of me and some slices of my view are unobstructed for miles. Would the ANT-BH900-IN make much of a difference in my case? Thank you!

Nik - 6/3/2021​

With unobstructed views you may not see a huge difference. Small differences can add up over time though. I look at it this way: At $120 more than the cheap antenna, I'm getting the best thing on the market (MP Antenna holds patents on their multi polarized antennas.) With HNT at $15, if having the antenna earns me just 8 extra HNT it'll pay for itself.

Nate - 6/5/2021​

Thanks Nik. I'm trying to square the concepts in your article with your primary recommended antenna. You show in that drawing and write that a medium gain antenna at relatively high elevation is almost always best. However, the antenna you recommend for most setups boasts a 3 dbi gain, which seems like a low gain compared to the 9 dbi max. Am I missing something?

Nik - 6/5/2021​

Typically with Helium, the lower the gain you can use the more witnesses you'll have as it won't break the RSSI/SNR curve. Anything above 6 usually starts creating more invalid witnesses than you want. Remember, the type of antenna you put on has far less effect than the elevation it's at or the location it's in. Don't get too twisted up about gain.

michael scott - 6/9/2021​

60CM High Gain Long Range Wide Band 3G 4G LTE Cellular Omni Directional Fiberglass Antenna for 4G LTE Route... Sponsored 60CM High Gain Long Range Wide Band 3G 4G LTE Cellular Omni Directional Fiberglass Antenna for 4G LTE Router Modem Gateway Mobile Cell Phone Signal Booster Cellular Amplifier, Eifagur $89.99 FREE Delivery Mon, Jun 14 Only 17 left in stock - order soon. will these work for the rak miner? they are on amazon

Nik - 6/9/2021​

Without seeing the details on it, I wouldn't say yes. I'd go with an HNTenna; they're built for Helium by folks who know what they're doing.

Gary - 6/12/2021​

Hi Nik! We just got our helium miner and ordered the antenna you recommended. Our LMR 400 cable that we purchased Ntype female to sma male I believe. This does not fit the diameter to the screw on connector for the antenna. The antenna threaded connector is quite large. Any help would be great!

Nik - 6/12/2021​

Hi Gary, check over on the connections page and see if you can match the pictures up to what you have. Also, I think you'll want an RP-SMA male, not an SMA Male.

Gary - 6/12/2021​

Hey Nik thanks for getting back to me so quick! I already purchased an Rp-SMA Male to n female and that's not correct. I need the one that can screw on to the HNTenna and that I believe is the N type male but I will look. None of the ends will fit so the RP-SMA Male is incorrect no doubt. I will check the connections page if I can find it. Thanks again.

Nik - 6/12/2021​

What miner did you get? The HNTenna outdoor has an N-type female connection, so your cable connector on the antenna side should be an N-type male.

Gary - 6/12/2021​

Yes the HNTenna outside one. So I probably need an Ntype female to connect to the male on the antenna right? And the other end to the miner I guess I have to research that too. This is almost as confusing as buying a pressure washer and trying to fit quick connects on lol.

Gary - 6/12/2021​

Thanks for the info Nik. I knew from looking at images of connectors that I needed a N-type Male connector, problem is, unless it's just me. The diameter of the female connector seems larger than usual. Am I right about this? Thank you for everything Nik! I can't wait to get this up on my chimney!

Nik - 6/12/2021​

Hi Gary, it can be confusing. The connector on the outdoor HNTenna is an N-type Female. You'll need a cable with an N-type Male. What miner do you have?

Luljeta Gjoka - 6/13/2021​

Hey Nick are these antennas available for Europe I have rak miners from calchip!

Nik - 6/13/2021​

Some antennas can handle a wider frequency range than others. In general (and there ARE exceptions), US antennas won't work well in Europe, and vice versa. HNTenna is releasing a Euro version soon, check in with them to get the latest.

Jerry - 6/14/2021​

Hi Nik, I am considering setting up a 3dbi antenna on top of my house in the suburbs. There is a large tree within about 40-50 ft horizontally from where I would place the antenna. The tree also probably has about 30-40 ft additional vertical height compared to the antenna. Do you think the antenna you recommend would be able to get the signal around the tree? There are also quite a few trees around the neighborhood that are of comparable size, although none of them are within 100 ft. I’m just wondering if the antenna will even be able to get any signal out at all or if the trees will ruin the signal. The only other option I could think of is to mount the antenna to the tree and have it coming out of the top of it. Thoughts?

Nik - 6/14/2021​

Jerry, with all the horizontal distance you should be fine. It'll punch through a tree no prob; this ain't 5G. :)

corey huguley - 6/15/2021​

I have a few questions and I would to contact me on my email. I own 66 acres of land want to mind helium on my land. I seen your picture and would like sent up mine like yours. But my question how do you get great wifi to your outside miner?

Nik - 6/15/2021​

Hi Corey, check out the off grid post for more on how to do that.

Michael - 6/16/2021​

Great article! Question: Would you anticipate any performance issues in mounting a 3 dbi hotspot antenna on the same mast as a small omni-directional outdoor TV antenna? Will being on the same mast hurt the performance of the helium hotspot antenna? Does it matter whether the hotspot antenna is above or below the TV antenna (other than to say that higher = better)?

Nik - 6/16/2021​

Shouldn't be an issue, they're running on different freqs. Higher = better. ;)

Greg - 6/18/2021​

The European HNTenna is available now... got two! Hopefully more in the future

Atilla Akdogan - 6/23/2021​

Hi Nik, I am using the bobcat with the stock antenna outside on my patio on a 7th floor apartment, would the HNTenna be a better option for me? Also what cable would I need Ntype male to rpsma male? This is a great page you got here my friend kudos. Learned alot and still learning! Thank you!

Nik - 6/24/2021​

Hi Atilla, the HNTenna will probably be a better option. For your cable you'll need RP-SMA male to N-male.

Chris - 6/28/2021​

Hi, we're not connecting to anyone and we have hotspots within a mile away. We live on a golf course and the line of sight has a wall of 50 foot trees about 200 yards across a few fairways from the antennae. Beyond that is the club house, which is a pretty vast building. The line of sight runs right through the middle of it and the roof is about 20 feet tall. Then there is an open field before it gets to the neighborhood with the hotspots, but there is another set of trees and houses. I believe we are using the wrong antennae which is mounted to our chimney about 15 feet high from the ground.. Here are the specs: High Gain Omni Antenna For WiFi & Cell 3G 4G LTE (10 DBi) Wide Frequency Bands of 698MHz to 960MHz and 1710MHz to 2700MHz https://www.signalbooster.com/products/high-gain-omni-antenna-for-wifi-cell-3g-4g-lte-10-dbi Should we be using a lower dB? If so, what would you recommend. Appreciate any help.

Justin Miller - 6/28/2021​

Hi Nik, Great info. I'm on a high elevation but in a ravine that faces the city. So really there's only 30 degrees where I have a field of view, but that's all of downtown. That said it's maybe 20 kilometers away. You mentioned this flat panel antenna: https://www.l-com.com/wireless-antenna-900-mhz-9-dbi-heavy-duty-flat-panel-antenna Would that be my best option? Thanks!

Nik - 6/28/2021​

That actually sounds reasonable, give it a shot. :)

Nik - 6/28/2021​

Looks like the wrong antenna to me. Try a RAK 5.8 or the HNTenna instead.

Lorant Jakab - 7/2/2021​

Is the diamond BC 920 worth it? Will mining rewards be higher? Also it says it's a 9.3 db, will I have lots of problems? My area is Nanaimo but I want to go as far as Vancouver in Canada. Should I be buying a lower db antenna? Any one you recommend? I'm 103 ft above sea level, terrain relatively flat in the area, and towards Vancouver. Thanks Nik.

Nik - 7/3/2021​

Hi Lorant, Almost no antenna will make rewards significantly higher. Remember, 80% of earnings come from location, than 15% from antenna *elevation* at that location, and the last 5% or so from the antenna choice. Unless there is a super clear reason (usually extraordinary distance and no other hs close by) I would steer clear of antenna gains over 6 dBi. If you'd like a location assessment along with specific antenna recommendations for your install, consider hiring us.

$51,273 Month Mining Helium...Placement+Elevation+Antenna - TecHubb - 7/5/2021​

[…] What’s The Best Antenna For Your Helium Hotspot? […]

David - 7/5/2021​

Nik, Thank you dearly for all of the data you've provided here. It's a lot to swallow for a neophyte. But laid out well enough that it makes more sense with additional reads. You suggest ANT-NH900-OUT. All things "equal" (pole, 10 over roof, cabining) in a moderately treed suburban area that is at about the same elevation over the path where the majority of downtown witnessing is hoped (14 ish Km as the crow flies), do you still suggest NH900 over Bobcat stock? If yes, why? I know that there are a high quantity of variables that can impact the results here, but just from a layman's perspective of putting up your suggested antenna vs stock in a suburban area and trying to witness into the downtown area which is about 10 mi away.

Nik - 7/5/2021​

David, you're welcome. Keep in mind that antennas won't make a huge difference. Line of sight is key, and 14km is possible but out at the edge when it comes to profitability. Especially with trees (think the flat, well forested midwest area) it can be a super tough task to connect over 14 km. 1-3 km is more reasonable. Personally, I'd upgrade the antenna to an HNTenna just to wring the last few percentage points of performance out of it, but it may not be a huge difference.

Gary Titus - 7/5/2021​

Hey Nik! Sorry I just saw I didn't answer your question. We have RAK version 2 miner. I still have it on the windowsill right now. We had to get the ladder, lightning arrester etc. I am so ready to put up the HNT miner! I was wondering if the nut and washer that came with the antenna would be sufficient enough to hold it onto the bracket? We will have it about 25" in the air which will clear the treeline and should be higher than any house or structure in our area. So far we have 5 witnesses with it on the window sill, which is about 10" up I believe. I also researched my area's topography on Google earth, and studied where most of the hotspots are. Thank you for all of your help!

Nik - 7/5/2021​

Hi Gary, the mount that comes with the HNT is fine, just make sure you support the pole it's on. Can't wait to hear how it does.

What To Look For In A Helium Antenna - One Man's Search - 7/5/2021​

[…] Hot tip up front: Anten­nas have very lit­tle to do with your earn­ings. Most of your earn­ings come from your place­ment, most of the rest comes from how high you can get in that place­ment, and the final lit­tle sliv­er comes from anten­na choice. If you want to go deep into the best anten­na for your Heli­um hotspot, read up on it here. […]

Gary - 7/12/2021​

Hey Nik! I am attaching it to a 38" j pipe antenna mast. I have it secured with the provided worm clamps, and I also drilled 2 holes on each side of the mast so its secured by large bolts and curved washers. If the height isn't sufficient enough I will use a long schedule 40 pvc pipe as well. I will let you know when it goes up!

Gary - 7/12/2021​

One more question (for now) Nik. Do you recommend PVC type conduit, or galvanized steel? I'm leaning toward pvc type, because if I do get 10 foot it will be easier to setup. I also think it would survive the weather. Your thoughts?

Nik - 7/12/2021​

I'd go with metal, but I have a love affair with metal. As long as the PVC is strong enough, it should be OK short to mid term. Check to make sure whatever you're using doesn't deteriorate in the sun.

Brad - 7/13/2021​

Any Recommendation for someone that lives on a mountain blocked on one side? I have several antennas to test, but if I want to get a few miles out, below be, would I be better with an 8DBI Omni or like a 4-5 standard Omni or maybe a directional? I love this post BTW, it was super helpful with the visuals!

Nik - 7/13/2021​

Hi Brad, a 5-6 dBi omni will be fine for that. Best of luck with it!

Marie - 7/14/2021​

Hi Nik! Love your website and I can't thank you enough for everything I've learned from you! I'm getting invalid witnessed beacons and I don't understand why. It says "witness_rssi_below_lower_bound". Could this be because I'm using 5.8 and 8dbi antennas and the beaconner is too close to my location? Would be great to see an article on the subject since there's not a lot of information online! Thanks for your help

Tim Heckel - 7/14/2021​

Hi Nik - thanks so much for your help! Silly question - with the Hntenna, would you run the cable from the antenna inside to the miner? Or would you minimize the cable length and put the miner in an outdoor enclosure next to it? I assume the former, especially given my climate (MN). Lastly, you mentioned above that the bobcat miner -> hntenna would require a "RP-SMA male to N?male" -- any links/suggestions where to get one? Thanks again.

Nik - 7/14/2021​

Yep, that's a likely reason. It's fine to have a few of those "out of bounds", you just don't want too many. I'll work on an RSSI article. :)

Nik - 7/14/2021​

Not sure I understand the question. The HNTenna is fine outside, so you can keep the miner indoors and then run a cable out to it. If it was me, I always aim to get 'em outside with short cable runs; those projects are more fun. :). For cable, try USACoax.

Tom - 7/15/2021​

Hi Nik and thans for all the helpful info. Very much appreciate the sharing. I bought the Flat Panel patch antenna on your recommendation via the link to L-Com. One question. You advise to "aim it carefully". Any further elaboration please? I am high on a bluff with a mountain behind and a vast swath of humanity across flat lands and lots of water. Thanks again

Nik - 7/15/2021​

Hi Tom, unlike an omni it'll only really push out RF in one direction. You probably don't have to be *that* careful, just aim it at the middle of that swath and you'll be fine. Keep me posted on how it does!

Brad - 7/15/2021​

Hi Nik thanks again for all of your wonderful advice. I have the 8 dbi working now and doing quite well. Only connecting to others 30 - 150km away though, nothing close. I may try a directional and tilt it a little [down] as a test. I have a great spot outside, but no way to protect the unit. If I *did* do a long run to it from indoor to outdoor, what would you guess would be a safe length to run to it. I am guessing the exposure will outweigh the cable degradation. I am hoping for about 20-25'. Any thoughts? Thanks in advance!

Nik - 7/16/2021​

Hi Brad, 20-25' is no problem using LMR400.

Mike - 7/16/2021​

Hi Nik, I am wondering what would be the results considering two scenarios. I have 6 miners, 1 in the middle and 5 in each direction at exactly 300 meters thus forming a pentagon. Scenario 1: I am located in the city and using a 4dbi antenna at a high elevation and the signal might be blocked by a few buildings Scenario 2: I am in a rural area that is completely flat (let’s assume) and have a 4dbi antenna as well but there is nothing blocking the signal while all being in the same formation at 300 meters. Which scenario would give me better gains and will the 8dbi antenna be better for the rural area or not for my specific situation? Thanks

Nik - 7/17/2021​

Hi Mike, Neither of those will earn optimally, and there are probably better ways to deploy 6 miners. If you'd like to go through those in depth, book a consult session & we'll go through your entire scenario in order to maximize the (considerable) advantage of having 6 miners in hand.

Easy Helium Outdoor Antenna Upgrade – Tea and Tech Time - 7/26/2021​

[…] What’s The Best Antenna For Your Helium Hotspot? A Rough Guide To Helium Hotspot Placement […]

Mitchell Walls - 7/26/2021​

That directional you posted is ridiculous. I am witnessing people up to 39km through hundreds of tree and buildings. Only downside is a rarely but annoying get invalid witnesses for nearer people but I'll take seeing 20 people versus 3.

Nik - 7/26/2021​

Agree, it was one of my early installs before I had a better idea of how to do this. Glad you're getting plenty of witnesses!

Jodi - 8/2/2021​

Hi Nik, Thank you so much for all the amazing posts. I am about to mount an antenna on my unused chimney in the suburbs (flat terrain/1 story houses). I bought a 3dbi and a 5.8db antenna (to test) + an lmr400 cable to run down my chimney. I also bought a lightning arrester and a #10 AWG ground wire. I am keeping the miner inside as it gets up to 100 degrees in the summer here. After reading more about the HNTenna, I feel like I should just get it. If I do, I will need a new coax and lightning arrester (different connections) and a new mount. Can you recommend a mount/pole? Haven't found much on the internet. Lastly, the HNTenna links in this article are broken. It seems hntenna.com has updated their URLs.

Nik - 8/2/2021​

Thanks, I'll get those links updated! The outdoor HNTenna comes with a mount. I'd test the antennas you have first, get a baseline, see if you're happy with it. Location & elevation are way more important than antennas. :)

Can I Get A Witness? - One Man's Search - 8/4/2021​

[…] This helps explain why in many cas­es, when you get that fan­cy super high gain anten­na, your valid wit­ness­es dis­ap­pear. So what anten­na should you buy? […]

Greg Guadagnoli - 8/6/2021​

Hi Nik, thanks so much for all your work, this is an amazing resource. The general principle of higher gain means lower angle is making sense, but the way I'm looking at it makes it appear to me that for an antenna 50 feet up, the 45º band of a 4dBi hits everything from the ground on up starting at about 124 feet out, and and 8dBi (25º) hits it at about 235 feet out. I see how that's a huge difference when you look at them relatively, but in practice wouldn't you only be missing out hotspots that are within that first 235 feet with the 8dBi? What am I missing? Thanks for your help.

Nik - 8/6/2021​

You're not missing much there, although every antenna's gain pattern is different; check their datasheet for the antenna to make sure. The other thing that'll cause problems is higher gain antennas will put you on the wrong side of the RSSI/SNR curve. More on that here.

Gary - 8/8/2021​

Hey Nik! So we finally got out helium antenna up. We are using the HNTenna you suggested. How long does it take to notice a difference. It hasn't been 24 hours yet and I would describe myself as a patient person, but in this case I'm having anxiety lol. We had 4 witnesses before when we had it installed at the window sill. We still have 4 witnesses but lost 2 of the old witnesses to the south of us and gained 2 more. So we are still at 4 witnesses. I am thinking of going with a higher decibel antenna of this doeant work out for us. If so I am wondering if we could sell this one. You interested? Lol. How important is location NSEW relative to your hotspots installing above roof? Just curious. Should I give this antenna more time and see what happens? It was a pain outing up there, but I don't mind talking it down if I have to. Thanks again!

Nik - 8/8/2021​

Hi Gary, give it more time. I'd give it a week. Your witness list only builds when you beacon, which only happens once or twice every 24 hours. You want enough data points to make good decisions, and one or two beacons is less than optimal. Stick with it. :)

Michael - 8/9/2021​

Your posts on this stuff are really easy to understand. I'm taking your advice (from our email conversation and from hours of reading this weekend) to buy the HNTenna and am planning on purchasing a somewhat-short cable (probably around 30 inches) from USA Coax. Just using your advice and moving my antenna outside, I'm noticing a slight increase in rewards (~$2-$4 daily). With the new 3 dBi antenna and cable coming, I can only imagine those numbers will go up again. Thanks for all the help you do for this community!!

Gary - 8/9/2021​

Thanks Nik! You're right on, I have 8 witnesses now so I'm pretty happy with that so far! Thank you so much for your helping appreciate it. You definitely know your stuff man!

Gary - 8/9/2021​

Hey Nik! Now I have to just set up my other miners and I'm good to go. I already have a good location for them. Thanks again!

Nik - 8/9/2021​

Super, glad it's working for ya Gary. Rock on!

Jack Schnepel - 8/10/2021​

Gary, your comment was exactly what I was looking for. I just set my 8dbi antenna up 23.5ft. I am so anxious to get my miner to actually be mining. I'm glad I wasn't the only anxious one

Igotextra - 8/12/2021​

So this is probably a stupid question but I don’t wanna buy the wrong thing lol. My indoor HNTenna just came today. Do I need to buy a N-male to RP-SMA cable for this? And could I possible get a link for reference to which one I need? Thanks in advance!

Nik - 8/13/2021​

No prob. You don't need an N-male for it. Take a look at the antenna connection, then compare it to the images on this page. Make sure you also know the connection on your hotspot, then order a cable accordingly. USACoax does good work.

Rya - 8/14/2021​

Hey Nik - I tried checking out the recommended antennas from Hntenna but the links only land on the homepage. Is the 3 dbi antenna what you are recommending, or is it another product not currently available?

Nik - 8/15/2021​

Hi Ryan, the 3 dBi antenna is what I recommend. Rock on!

Alex - 8/16/2021​

Nik, as everyone had already stated, it's great learning from you. I bought that HNTenna, the 3db cone one. I plan on securely fastening it atop a cypress tree, like a star. It will be about 60ft above the ground. The only problem is, my box will have to be at the bottom of the tree, about 50' below. I saw your posts about "don't worry about the antenna", and "keep is as close as you can". I just will have to use about 50' of cable (LMR400,600,900 :) ). My question is, with the db drop of the cable length, and the antenna only being a 3db one, will I be able to squeeze enough DB out of that antenna to do good? Or, do I purchase 5-6db antenna, and have the final value around 3db. Thanks.

Nik - 8/17/2021​

Alex, it's a good question and I'm not sure of the answer. How are you bringing power & ethernet to the enclosure at the base of the tree? Can you use PoE to get that enclosure up much higher, thereby decreasing the antenna cable run? Please keep us posted on this as I'm pretty darn interested in the answer. One thing to keep in mind is that the OG miners do really well with just 28.2 dBi, so as long as you can end up with that or more, you're likely to be fine. If you're not sure on calcs, check out this page on Cable Loss & EIRP.

Alex - 8/17/2021​

I will be being power and eth to the base. I cannot climb the tree to get it any closer to the antenna. I might need help with the math.

Alex - 8/17/2021​

I just cannot climb that tree, its too full, and no branches to climb. Ill bring power and internet to it. I guess I could go POE, but that is not necessary. I might need help with the math.

Nik - 8/17/2021​

How are you getting the antenna up it?

Alex - 8/17/2021​

So, lol, an interesting idea I had was to take five 10 foot conduit plastic pipes, put them all together, and start at the base of the tree and just go through all the tree branches until it popped up over the top. Worked flawlessly. I’d post a picture if I could. Next, I will use LMR600, and thread it through the tube, tie some 550 cord to the end. Hook the antenna up, pull the 550 though and secure the cable to the ensure the antenna stays put. So far, so good.

Alex - 8/17/2021​

I sent you a picture on discord, Helium-Antennas

Nik - 8/18/2021​

Got it, posted here for reference. Now I see why it'd be hard to climb that tree. :)

Frank Oskar - 8/19/2021​

Hi Nik, I have purchased and installed HNTenna. I have two miners and they are 1.4 km apart. Here is my situation and could you please let me know your thoughts on below? 08/12-08/18: Miner A - Bobcat Cable: LMR 400, 20' long Location: On the roof Antenna: 6 dbi Miner B - Bobcat Cable: in stock, 4dbi Location: Inside the house, 2nd floor Antenna: 4 dbi Miner A and B could witness each other and beacons did not have any issue, also had mining rewards. 08/18-08/19: Miner A - Bobcat Cable: LMR 400, 20' long Location: On the roof Antenna: 6 dbi Miner B - Bobcat Cable: LMR 400, 15' long Location: Inside the the attic Antenna: HNTenna Issue: Miner A sent beacon and miner B witnessed it, but beacons are invalid: "witness_rssi_below_lower_bound" Miner B sent beacon and miner A witnessed it, but beacons are invalid: "witness_rssi_below_lower_bound" Another thing to add (08/18-08/19): Miner B's beacon was witnessed three times by miner which was 16km away without any issue.

Nik - 8/19/2021​

Hi Frank, Check over on this post regarding Witnesses & RSSI issues, it'll help explain what's happening with your 2 hotspots. Love the detail!

Eoin McLoughlin - 8/20/2021​

I have a location up 60 metres in a church in Dublin. Dublin being a relatively flat City and the fact that there are only two other hotspots within a 1 km radius I think I should go for an a TBI but what would you think? Rf sims say 174 potential witnesses with 8.0 and 170 with 3.0.

Nik - 8/20/2021​

If you're up high you should usually get a lower gain antenna, more like 3 than 8. What's a TBI?

David - 8/20/2021​

This is super helpful by the way, thanks for making it easy to digest on a subject I am clueless about. Sounds like your recommendation for me would be to stick with the stock antenna, let me know if that is right! My miner would be indoors (can't get it outside sadly) on the 14th floor of a highly populated city (Oakland, CA). Originally I was leaning towards a 5.8 dbi antenna, but now I have concerns since their are so many tall buildings in the area.

How These Accessories Can Impact Your Helium Network Coverage – Parley Labs - 8/20/2021​

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Joseph - 8/20/2021​

after reading your article i have been doing quite a bit of research. i really appreciate the time you put in to writing this up. i have a sensecap on the way. i am trying to figure out what antenna to order because there is not a lot of hotspots in my area (Rockwall, TX) the simulations are with 30 foot LMR 400 at 1.2 loss, 30 feet in the air on the roof of my house, then i tried various dbi in the simulation. the only one that seems to perform at all is 12dbi. i didn’t even want the antenna up this high because it’s a rent house and max with sensecap is 9dbi. it appears from the from the elevation experiments in google maps that there is a 20 foot elevation gain before i get to the lake in any line of site path I try to outline. it seems like directional may not be an option because of the elevation gain and because I can really only get up about 25 foot at the most, that’s my roof peak it basically looks like i’m blocked from all of the hotspot clusters on the other side of the lake due to this 20 foot elevation gain any ideas if this looks accurate? should i just start with a 5.8 dbi omni and see what happens? (geo/address is not my address, but close enough) https://beta.hotspotrf.com/map/?share=81689db12bba4656ac6716e3a413b5b1 https://beta.hotspotrf.com/map/?share=df4867603c6f40f7b33a6f1b8bdedde9 https://beta.hotspotrf.com/map/?share=1a1c78bd7a854777ad89c607d5a67096 https://beta.hotspotrf.com/map/?share=cee96b2feaa149d59718065b7f627f17 Google Maps Elevation Experiments https://imgur.com/a/6Wycsmq I have posted in the sensecap discord and the helium subreddit and i’m unable to get a response . i’m really trying to learn and research here and your articles have helped me so much

Nik - 8/20/2021​

Hi Joseph, if you're blocked by elevation, your best bet is to find another location; the antenna won't make a difference. I wouldn't give the simulations too much weight (they're useful, but not the gospel), and I definitely wouldn't use a 12 dBi antenna. Let me know if that helps you.

Nik - 8/20/2021​

Hi David, yep, stick with stock to start off. Use an HNTenna indoor antenna if you want to spend money and upgrade, but start with stock.

Joseph - 8/20/2021​

Thank you so much for the response. I’m at a loss for another location unless i was to work out a deal where someone takes 70% of my earnings. Do you think a lower dbi antenna would get up and over the elevation without raising my antenna above 25 feet when the elevation gain seems to be 20 feet and it raises that 20 feet in a distance of 1.93 miles from me?

Nik - 8/20/2021​

Probably not, but you can try. RF can be weird. Still, I'd focus my efforts on finding another location. Location is 80% of your earnings.

David - 8/23/2021​

Hi Nik, My Bobcat is due to arrive any day now and there is a lot of info floating our there... I like what you say and have read most all your posts; a lot of information, most beyond my understanding. Is there a placement optimization map available? Some map that allows me to input my address and based on all parameters, advise where to place my antenna and how high, etc? Is there a service that can help? I know a lot of people who but miners and keep buying more ad new equipment, trying to optimize their initial investment and I rather do this one, and right. Open to suggestions. Thanks, David

Edward - 8/23/2021​

Hi, What antenna do you recommend for a 5 story building (60 feet) in nyc?

Nik - 8/23/2021​

Hi David, The best tool I've found for placement optimization is Helium.Vision, but it's not automatic at finding the best spot. I offer consulting that'll walk you through the strategy side as well as helping you find the best spot locally, you can read more about that here. I think you're on the right track aiming to get it done right the first time, keep going!

Nik - 8/23/2021​

Outdoor HNTenna from hntenna.com

Mark - 8/23/2021​

Quick question: I recently upgraded my antenna to the 3dbi outdoor HNTenna. Which antenna do I set inside my bobcat? I chose custom antenna and set it to 3dbi but wondering if I should have gone another way. Would love your thoughts.

Don - 8/24/2021​

I have an 9 story office building in a suburban city right next to a shopping center with many business located nearby. There are two other tall buildings across the street, each a few hundred feet away. I have some cell towers on my flat roof over the top-floor mechanical room below but there is about 150 feet between the two cell tower structures. I am planning to put up a Helium 915 antenna attached to the concrete side of the building right between the two cell bundles. The Bobcat 300 will be right inside the building within about 30 feet maximum cable run. What antenna of your recommendation would be the best for this relatively flat area with trees, stores, houses, and other tall/short buildings nearby and below? I can even easily see the nearby airport from the roof. And do you recommend anything better than the Bobcat 300?

Michel - 8/24/2021​

Hey, Nick. I have a newly installed hotspot, indoors/behind a thick glass window (no access for outdoors option ), around 70m high, clear line of sight. I got a fiberglass 5dBi antenna for this one, in 24h i got 31 witnesses. But i'm wondering if it would be wiser to upgrade later with a 3dBi? i'm afraid the glass would attenuate the signal considerably for a smaller antenna, would love to get your opinion on this one :) Another question, just wondering if installing a fiberglass antenna indoors is somehow bad for health ^^

Nik - 8/24/2021​

Hi Michael, sounds like your install is fine for the constraints you have. I'd probably try a 3 dBi, but I like testing things. As far as a fiberglass antenna indoors being bad for health, check out this post on RF emissions. I'm not sure if there's anything inherently unhealthy in a fiberglass antenna, but I'm definitely not a medical professional. :)

Nik - 8/24/2021​

Hi Don, I'd use the HNTenna (hntenna.com) for that deployment; urban deployments with lots of reflected signals are where they'll usually do best. As far as miners, they're all pretty similar, though the Bobcats are apparently sensitive to heat, so make sure it's in a shaded/cooler place.

Nik - 8/24/2021​

Hey Mark, you did the right thing; "Custom Antenna" is fine. :)

john Horlieca - 8/27/2021​

the question i have is would a multi-directional 12 dbi antenna work 10 feet above a 2 story house? and how long before i see an increase in gain

Nik - 8/28/2021​

Hi John, While it'll work to send out RF, most of those transactions will be invalid due to being likely to break the current RSSI/SNR curve Helium uses to evaluate signals. Take a look at this post on Witnessing to help understand that.

Johannes - 8/29/2021​

Hello, thanks for the awesome guide. Quick Question, rural Austria all the next hotspots are around 25 km away. The Miner is on a high Building (30 meters), topography is rather flat also no high buildings on the way. What antenna would you suggest? Miner is Bobcat.

Nik - 8/29/2021​

Hi Johannes, I'd go with the stock Bobcat antenna mounted on a metal surface or a low gain antenna like the HNTenna. With clear Line of sight and plenty of elevation you don't need high gain.

VM - 8/30/2021​

Hi Nik, many thanks for Your precious informations! I need an advice and a help: I live in a suburban flat area. Nearest hotspots are in 9 - 15 km distance. Waht antenna dBi gain do You recommend? Is there some Eropean distributor ar manufacturer for HNTenna ? Are there some alternatives for multi-polarised antennas? Greeting from Europe!

Nik - 8/30/2021​

Hi VM, as long as you have clear line of sight (no mountains/hills blocking it) you should be fine with a lower gain (4 dBi or lower) antenna. HNTenna ships to Europe, so you should be fine there. Don't get too wrapped up if you can't get one of theirs though, as a standard vertically polarized antenna will usually do almost as well. Remember, the most important thing is location, then elevation. Antennas just don't matter that much.

mic - 8/30/2021​

Good antenna! But I use the antenna for miner from RFAreas. Good manufacturer. And I guess that thier antennas are the best in the world.

Nik - 8/30/2021​

All the top manufacturers make excellent antennas, glad you found one that works well for you!

Pat - 9/3/2021​

Hi Nik, I need an advice if you don't mind ofcourse I live in on the Hill to be fair with clear line of sight. I've got another helium miners 500 meters under me. I choose 8 dbi antenna but i guess its to strong because is not connecting with them. Any advice? My antenna is on the roof

Nik - 9/3/2021​

Sure, try a lower gain antenna.

Moh - 9/4/2021​

Hi Nik, thanks a lot for your great article. My city is really crowded (Beirut, Lebanon) and it will probably be filled with hotspots sooner than later. I plan to put my antenna at the rooftop. Highest point. Should I get the 5.8 dbi one (fiberglass) ? Or get a lower gain antenna (from hntenna) or just stick with the original ? Problem with the original is that I am going to need an extension to protect the miner from the rain/high temp/... so it will be a few meters far from the antenna, which cannot be covered by the stock antenna (4 dbi). Fyi: my building is 15 floors tall (around 55 meters tall). What do you suggest? Moh.

Nik - 9/4/2021​

Hi Moh, I'd use the HNTenna there; they usually do really well in urban environments.

krpk - 9/11/2021​

What to do if I am in flat area but the closest hotspots are more than 10km away in all directions. Which antenna would you recommend?

Nik - 9/11/2021​

Get your antenna high enough to have a clear Line of Sight to other antennas. I'd use the HNTenna, but any of the good name brands will be fine.

carlos castillo - 9/11/2021​

hello sir, thanks for all this valuable info. so, when would you use a 15db antenna? I purchased a 12 and a 16db and plan to install them on poles on top of roof at total of 35 feet or so in Orlando subs, in florida where there are no mountains. I figured it would help by reaching some hotspots in down town as well, some 5-10 miles away, giving me an edge on reach. I ran the simulator on hotspot RF and it shows that the higher gain antenna would reach more hot spots with higher db antenna. What are your thoughts? thank you!

Nik - 9/11/2021​

Hi Carlos, in the US you'd never use a 15 dBi antenna; it breaks FCC limits. 9 dBi is the max. With clear Line of Sight you can go hundreds of km, so a high gain antenna doesn't give you any advantage with only 5-10 miles to cover. Hotspot RF has said they're only accurate to 60% +/- 20%, and with the network changing so rapidly it's probably even less reliable.

adam L - 9/13/2021​

Great Article. I'm considering setting up a helium hotspot in Hawaii. I live on the 10th floor of a 20floor+ building overlooking a canal and it's pretty open. Not sure if I can just purchase a stock bobcat and have a decent amount of coverage.

Nik - 9/13/2021​

Right on Adam, that should work. Try putting a small metal sheet (think cookie tray) under the Bobcat antenna, that seems to increase performance. Keep us posted on how it goes!

Todd - 9/15/2021​

Hey Nik, generally speaking is it better to point an Antenna through a wall (close to it) or set it up next to a window? 2nd story house upstairs bedroom placement. CAN'T do outside. Trying the 4 dbi bobcat and will soon try the 5.8 and 8 dbi rakwireless as well as the 3 dbi indoor hntenna. Subbed to yer youtube and read a lot from you but missed this question above. I can get about 18 inches higher than the window if I setup next to the wall (would be close to ceiling). Should antennas be placed closest to wall or locate a foot back from it? Will report back on all antennas once I get some insight from you and complete all 4 antenna tests.

Nik - 9/15/2021​

Depends on window and wall type. Newer reflective windows can be a bear to get through. Give the signal some space to breathe; a foot off or more.

Luke - 9/15/2021​

I hope you can help - I need a cable to connect my bobcat 300 to my RAK 5.8 antenna to get it up on the roof of my house. I can not seem to find anywhere selling LMR400 cables with the correct connectors, which I believe are N Female (into the miner) & RP-SMA Male (into the RAK antenna)??

Nik - 9/15/2021​

Check with USACoax.com, and call ‘em if you don’t see it on their site.

Louis - 9/15/2021​

Hi Nik, Great article ! I am looking more into the type of antenna i will need. My username is unique ceramic deer, it is almost done syncing up. Given my suburban location, with barely any high buildings, do you reccomend using the stock antenna, but simply setting it up on a really high pole ? How much better would a 2 DBI ( stock antenna ) up high be VS say the HNTenna 915 ? Thank you in advance !

Nik - 9/15/2021​

Hi Louis, I'd test the stock antenna and get it up as high as you can. The HNTenna will probably do a little better, but it won't be magic.

Jason Williams - 9/19/2021​

Hello, I’m somewhat confused on which antenna would be the best for the area that I’m in. My hotspot names are, lively foggy salamander , hidden champagne camel. Both locations are in a Neighborhood, flat with just trees. The closest hotspot is 3km to 6km away. The highest I would be able to get the antennas would be about 9ft. On the ledge of house.

Nik - 9/19/2021​

If lots of trees you may benefit from a 5.8, at least until PoCv11 comes. Otherwise, see if you can get it higher and roll with a lower gain antenna.

Andy Margesson - 9/23/2021​

Hi Nik, I had a consultant come and asses the installation of an antenna on the roof of the 4 storey building I live in. The issue he has is accessing the roof as it's 25m high. I can get into the eaves and install the HNtenna there, but would there be a significant loss of signal through the roof tiles? Thanks

Scott - 9/23/2021​

Great article! Thanks so much for making it. I live in SUPER flat Florida, but there are Pine and Oak trees everywhere between all houses and neighborhoods (no tall buildings or geography), if I can get an antenna on top of my roof, but probably not quite over the top of the trees what would be your recommendation for my Bobcat miner? The beginning of your article makes it sound like I should go higher, up to 9dbi. Does that make sense considering all I have to clear is mostly just the tops of trees? Thanks again!

Nik - 9/23/2021​

Hi Andy, get the thing as high as you can and if it's below the roofline, away from the side of the building. Without seeing your situation it's hard to advise, but...the best you can do is the best you can do.

Nik - 9/23/2021​

Flattest state in the Union! If all you've got is the tops of trees for miles around, getting signal out will be hard. A 9 dBi will help a bit, but dense vegetation really dampens the signal. It's kind of like fighting a forest fire with a garden hose: It'll help save the house, but it won't solve the problem. Better off getting it as high as possible or finding a better location.

sala mouna - 9/28/2021​

Great article I will need the 8 DBI antenna for my case but the device is not here yet

Gio - 9/30/2021​

I live on a hill over looking all of Los Angeles. Behind me is more hills. In front of me is city lights. Less than 10 miles away is downtown Los Angeles There are many miners in my immediate vicinity, but I am one of the highest in elevation. How would a yagi work for me? Line of sight is great, would you advise against a 9dbi? What would work best in this situation?

Nik - 10/1/2021​

Hi Gio, stick with a low gain omni like the HNTenna. A yagi will just limit your options.

Arturo - 10/1/2021​

Hey Nik, GREAT article. I'm about to setup my fiirst hotspot, it's in a location 15km far from the nearest hotspot but with a great elevation in a mountain and with direct sight to it (and the whole city). Do you think the patch antenna would reach this distance?

Nik - 10/1/2021​

Hi Arturo, Yep, a patch antenna will easily reach that, but an omni will also easily reach it. I'd go with an omni. Cheers, Nik

Damjan - 10/4/2021​

Hi Nik.. my hot spot is in the forest where I have a weekend .. I have 500m to the sea ... the nearby town is 3km away .. across the sea I have towns that are 45km away .. it makes sense to have a hot spot and what would I need to reach hot points I am from Europe Slovenia Croatia

Nik - 10/5/2021​

Depends on clear line of sight across the water. It may work well if your hotspot can "see" those other hotspots. If you're surrounded by dense forest it'll be much more challenging.

Steven Smith - 10/6/2021​

Hey, Nik. Any changes to what you would suggest for antenna with PoC11 coming?

Nik - 10/6/2021​

Nope. I'll stick with the HNTenna for all my setups.

Ash - 10/8/2021​

Hi Nik, Thank you for your advice and well written article. I have the (915) 902-928MHz from HNTENNA. What cable do you recommend I use to connect the antenna to my bobcat? The pin size looks different than the stock antenna. Do I need an adapter? Appreciate your help! Have a great weekend!

Nik - 10/10/2021​

Depending on length you'll probably want LMR400 or LMR240. Use the 400 for anything over, say, 10'. Check your connectors here, then order the correct cable & fittings from USACoax.com. https://gristleking.com/helium-hotspot-reference/ Should be RP-SMA male to N-type male. Always double check! :)

Giovanni Ghinelli - 10/11/2021​

Hi Nik, Thanks a lot for the article, really helpful. I just have a specific doubt about the myner I just installed. I live in Modena, a relatively small city located in the plains in northern Italy, and I have positioned the myner at about 20 meters high (on the top floor of the building). I set up the myner (Sensecap with 2.8 Dbi antenna) about a week ago and I was wondering about the best outdoor antenna to buy (to date I have the myner and antenna inside the house positioned in front of a small window open all day) so I can install it directly on the roof. In your opinion, 5.8 Dbi is better or you can achieve better performance with the 8.0 Dbi? Thank you very much, Giovanni

Nik - 10/11/2021​

Hi Giovanni, in a city with elevation you'll want the antenna to be as low dBi as possible in order to get maximum local coverage. I'd got with an HNTenna, but any of the lower gain antennas (4 dBi and under) will work.

Albert - 10/12/2021​

Hi Nik, Great articles you post! I have 5 spots I just setup this last week. One of them is called Wobbly Glass Perch. My question is this, can I run a cable from the device (Rak V2) to just the antenna to place outdoors? Perhaps the HNTenna or an outdoor antenna? Hope that makes sense. I can't place the Rak outside, so I have a 9db antenna attached to the outside of my spare bedroom about 15 meters up from the ground with a decent clear view. I have an HOA here, so I'm trying to be utilize as much concealment as possible as well as gaining the best coverage. Thank you!

Nik - 10/12/2021​

Sure, use antenna cable to connect the Hotspot and the antenna. You can buy that from USACoax.com, make sure you get the right connectors and you'll be fine.

Paulito - 10/12/2021​

Hi Nik- thanks for all your efforts, you are a gentleman and a scholar! Would using a mast on top of a residential roof (to get more elevation) pose any issue with it being a lightning hazard? Do you take that into consideration at all or are there any measures that should be taken to reduce the risk?

Nik - 10/13/2021​

Hi Paulito, I use a mast on my house. It's more lightning risk, but for me I'm fine with that. Use a lightning arrestor to mitigate the risk to your equipment.

Stefan Hochstatter - 10/16/2021​

Hi Nick, I live in the suburbs outside of Milwaukee. There are three very poorly performing hotspots within a mile of me (one is being relayed). And then there are a ton of hotspots between seven and 10 miles to the south. Since most of the hotspots are that far away, does the low db antenna still make sense? Or should I move into medium gain? I’m planning to mount it on an 8 foot pole on the peak of my roof, which will put it above all of the other roofs. I am at a somewhat higher elevation than anything south or east and somewhat lower than anything north and west but it’s very gradual. So it seems like I have a particularly good location to hit hotspots to the south where all of them seem to be. Thanks for the advice! And great article.

Nik - 10/16/2021​

Hi Stefan, sounds you'll have clear lines of sight, so you'll probably be best served with a lower gain (3-6) antenna. 7-10 miles is no problem for LoRa at our output power & spreading factor.

PabloS - 10/18/2021​

My miner is on the way but I’m unsure if I should preorder the RAK 5.8dbi antenna or if I should just use the stock MNTD antenna. There is a miner down the street from me “Brilliant Honey Beetle” but I can’t seem to tell what antenna he’s using. By my location, do you think I’d be able to benefit from a 5.8dbi?

Nik - 10/18/2021​

Depends on where you are. In the US, a 5.8 is a safe bet, though the clear line of sight your antenna will have to other miners is far more important than what antenna you buy. In the UK/EU, you'll need a 5.8 dBi minimum due to the lower output power of the radio.

Michalis - 10/19/2021​

hi buddy and congrats on the article. i live in Cyprus (EU) and i placed one of my miners to a friends house which is located on a slope. from the roof of the house you can see the whole town. basically at 180 degrees you can see the whole town. the rest of the 180 degrees basically you see the mountain. do you think that a Directional Antenna would suit better in this situation? thanks alot!!

Nik - 10/19/2021​

Thanks Michalis. How far from the town are you? I'd look at a slightly higher gain omni; never hurts to cover extra area, especially if that coverage might one day be useful.

Salvatore Rainone Jr. - 10/19/2021​

Hey great article! My question to you is, what antenna should i use for my set up. My miner is located in Queens, NYC and its about 20-22 feet up right now in my attic. I would like to move it to my roof on top of my chimney. I have a bobcat miner and i use the stock 4bi antenna. Should i just get the outdoor enclosure kit and use the stock antenna or should i buy a different one? Please let me know if you need anymore info!

Nik - 10/19/2021​

I'd get the antenna up high and try and leave the Bobcat indoors where it's temp controlled. Probably worth it to get an aftermarket antenna; I like the HNTenna, but it'll also depend on cable length.

Salvatore Rainone Jr. - 10/20/2021​

If i leave bobcat in my attic i can run the antenna cable about 20-30feet to the top of my chimney. What dbi do you recommend?

Nik - 10/20/2021​

Depends where in the world you are and what cable you use. LMR400 and the US? HNTenna. Outside the US? 5.8 - 8 dBi omni from any of the reputable brands.

Salvatore Rainone Jr. - 10/20/2021​

Im in the south part of queens in NYC. Lot of miners in NYC and i am basically on the water so everything is elevated above me. I was planning on getting outside setup for bobcat miner so i dont need a 30ft cable because there will be cable loss. If its better to keep in my attic i will do that and run the wire to my roof and mount an antenna. I just would like to know what dbi is good for me. thanks

Nik - 10/20/2021​

Well, to be straight with you, anything in NYC is going to be a tough row to hoe, and the antenna won't make that much difference.

Salvatore Rainone Jr. - 10/20/2021​

oh ok. Maybe i should just buy the bobcat enclosure and put it on my roof with the stock 4bi antenna. its 22 feet up right now but on my chimney it would be 30 feet so that should make a difference.

Nik - 10/20/2021​

You can def try it. Elevation usually helps, but location is what drives earnings. If you're locally overcrowded, location changes of 8' usually won't matter.

Salvatore Rainone Jr. - 10/20/2021​

well if its not gonna change significantly then i rather not spend the time and money to go 10 feet higher. My second bobcat isnt set up but the location i want to put it at has the router in basement.. so i need to figure out how to get miner high up without moving router.

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[…] Here is a link from a guy, that shares more specific information about helium antena placement . […]

Kelly Smith - 11/2/2021​

My question to you is, what antenna should I use for my setup. My miner is located in Queens, NYC, and it is about 20–22 feet up right now in my attic. I would like to move it to my roof on top of my chimney. I have a bobcat miner and I use the stock 4bi antenna. Should I just get the outdoor enclosure kit and use the stock antenna or should I buy a different one? Please let me know if you need any more info!

Nik - 11/2/2021​

Hi Kelly, the antenna won't make much difference; Queens is pretty overcrowded. The *best* antenna will probably be an HNTenna, but again, the local overcrowding is the big problem. You'll be far better off moving well outside the city.

Anna - 11/3/2021​

Hey ? I live in a hilly town (20 min south of Seattle) that’s not fully covered but has a couple hexagons that have 2-3 hotspots. What antenna would you recommend for one that’ll be at the top of a 3 story house, on top of a hill that overlooks the main town ?

Nik - 11/3/2021​

Hi Anna, I'd go with an HNTenna.

2GBLT - 11/3/2021​

DO HIGH TENSION POWER LINES DISRUPT THE SIGNAL. ACROSS THE STREET FROM MY HOUSE ABOUT 200' AWAY I HAVE THESE MONSTROSITIES - 100' TALL TOWERS - 230000 VOLT TRANSMISSION LINES - MY ROOF HEIGHT IS ABOUT 20' - WAS PLANNING 20' POLE & MOUNT OUTDOOR ANTENNA AT TOP - SO ROGHLY 40' - WHICH WOULD LEAVE THE TOWER/POWERLINES 60' ABOVE AND ROUGHLY 200' AWAY FROM MY HOUSE

Nik - 11/4/2021​

Good question. I wouldn't think so, but it's possible. Get the antenna high and you'll probably be fine.

Serge - 11/4/2021​

In a one story suburban house, surrounded by many similar houses with same surroundings . Highest point is chimney ~25' above ground. Trees 30-80' tall about 30-40' away from the chimney pretty much on all sides, and many trees between neighborhood houses. Have a few hotspots (all SyncroBits) with stock 3dB antennae to set up in the area. I'm thinking a good start would be atop a pole attached to chimney (on each house)...? But what length pole? Should 10' be enough? 20'? Higher? Higher dB antennae, perhaps? TIA

Nik - 11/5/2021​

Get 'em as high as you reasonably can. :)

Shawn - 11/8/2021​

Just got my Linxdot miner today. I'm in the foothills of the Westside of Colorado Springs, with a view of the entire city. I have 2 questions: 1. Do I need a Patch Antenna? There are dozens of Hotspots I can witness less than 5 km away. 2. Will running my hotspot on wifi (after it's synced of course) cause any reduction in mining rewards?

Nik - 11/8/2021​

Shawn, you don't need a patch antenna, and running your hotspot on WiFi just makes it more like the hotspot will drop connection and miss out on rewards. Keep it on ethernet cable if you can.

Patrick Fitzpatrick - 11/9/2021​

Hey Nik, Thanks for you awesome articles. Clever and humorous, always easy and great to read. I’ve been debating and reading and yours seems to give the best advice. I was even shocked to see Petite Men­thol Leop­ard I’m your article which is close to me. Question is: My Syncro.Bit miner only gets .01 HNT a day. My location is Napa in the foothills with a forested area. I know a antenna will most likely help. I’m thinking a 8-9 dbi would help my situation most right? I’m guessing if I get it outside on my 2 story home roof it would allow better allow Site of Vision from trees and hilly area. Would you then recommend the 915Mhz / 8 dBi gain Omni LoRa Antenna with 20ft Cable or the antenna that Syncro.Bit sells on their website? Does it make sense to buy the antenna on the Syncro website for it’s the same brand? Also I wanted to inquire about Helium Network Jobs you mentioned as well if there are any opportunities.

Nik - 11/9/2021​

Hi Patrick, the most important thing will be to get the antenna up high with a clear line of sight to other hotspots. The brand/dBi generally doesn't matter, just try and keep it a lower dBi (5.8 is more than enough.)

Matteo - 11/11/2021​

Guys, I have a question, I am going to place a hotspot in a very tall building - in which I have an office- in the center of a very big city -Madrid, Spain-. It is 60m- 200feet, and I’ll be able to place it outside because we have a terrace. My question is if I should go with an 8dbi, or a 3dbi. I am concerned that an 8 or even a 5dbi are to flat and don’t reach the hotspots that are directly below us (as it is a building literally located in the center). My scale is 1.00 as there are no hotspots in the “dead zone”. Thanks for the advice!

Nik - 11/11/2021​

Hi Mateo, since you're in the EU and radio power output is lower, I'd go with a 5.8.

Tommy - 11/11/2021​

Is an omni-directional antenna actually omni-directional? Read that theyre not but god knows how i could direct them?

Nik - 11/11/2021​

Hi Tommy, "Omni-directional" is more of a guideline; they shoot out radiation in *pretty much* all directions. You could direct them with a metal shield, and companies sell that, but there's no great reason to.

Robin - 11/11/2021​

Nik, This article is amazing and your attention to quality and detail is superb. I ordered my FinestraMiner today for my suburban area, but can’t find info online if anyone has hooked up a HNTenna to it for boosted signal. Any experience monkeying with FinestraMiners? Thanks!

Nik - 11/11/2021​

Hi Robin, I haven't had my hands on a Finestra, but it should work fine with any antenna. Enjoy!

Jochen - 11/12/2021​

Hi Nik thanks for all the provided information. I am actually setting up my miner and was thinking about the antenna. Im in EU in a smaller City with smaller Hills and no Hex is attached at the moment. I will place it as high as possible and thinking about a 8 or 3db one. The next bigger City with the biggest connected Network is about 3 miles straight with a Hill inbetween. Any recommendation would bei appreciated. Kind regards Jo

Nik - 11/12/2021​

Yo Jo! :). Probably an 8 for now since it's an EU hotspot pushing out much less power. PoCv11 may change all of this, so just be ready to adapt.

Robin - 11/12/2021​

Thank you for being so helpful Nik, the one thing I am not sure was mentioned is whether or not it’s beneficial to use a metal antenna mast or a fiberglass antenna mast to reduce RF interferences? Thanks!!

Nik - 11/12/2021​

Hi Robin, I'd go with a metal mast for durability. There's probably no appreciable RF performance difference for what we're doing. I've got clients with both options and either works well.

Vladimir - 11/12/2021​

Hey nik, thank you for your information!!! I am living in a City 20 km away from Frankfurt (EU, Germany). In Frankfurt there are a lot of hexs. Between my City and Frankfurt there are no Hills, but there is another City, Offenbach with also many Hex(ca.30) .Offenbach is 13 km from my city. In my City there are 12 Hex. My spots are about 10 m high. Would you Take a 3dbi or 8 dbi Antenna. Any rec­om­men­da­tion would be appre­ci­at­ed. I cant decide and the pocv11 makes the dessicion even more complicated. Sorry for my english and greetings Vladimir

Nik - 11/12/2021​

Really hard to say for the Euro region. I'd try the 8 dBi. I don't think there's a great solution because the radio output is so low.

Siegfried mabanta - 11/12/2021​

Hi Nik, Im a newbie for hotspot, please help as I no idea for the antenna range or dbi. But planning to buy a bobcat 300 with 4dbi stack antenna. My location is at a urban area with same height of houses and some small trees. Im seeing some hotspot devices near my area with a distance of at 20km and lowest is at 3km to my location. Can you recommend me the antenna i need to get more witnesses connected to my bobcat 300. Appreciate your help.

Nik - 11/12/2021​

What part of the world are you in?

Matt - 11/12/2021​

Have a SyncroBit stock in my attic now, I estimate 11m height. Planning to move it outside, but can't decide on chimney (which would allow a pretty tall pole, but is maybe 8m away from a tree on one side) or just at the roof peak at least 16m away from any trees but probably won't allow for a super tall pole. In the US so deciding on antenna (there's 3 different ones at the link, I presume you're talking the outdoor US 915 one, priced at $150?)

Daniel - 11/13/2021​

I live in an apartment on the second floor… I have access to an outdoor balcony but my MNTD gold miner is currently in my window with the stock 2.3dbi antenna. There are trees and other buildings around and my building is on a hill probably 30-50 feet up from the road. There are two other hotspots within 2 km from me but my miner doesn’t detect them, and others are about 12-14km away. Should I buy a higher gain outdoor antenna and install it on my balcony? Is this a lost cause because of my location?

Nik - 11/13/2021​

Hi Daniel, you're far better off finding a new location.

Nik - 11/13/2021​

How much lower is the roof peak? I'd probably go there unless there's a 5m or more difference. LoRa likes some space around it. Also take into consideration what is behind that tree that you want to hit (in terms of hotspots.) Yes, the outdoor 915 is the one I use.

Matt - 11/13/2021​

Nik, the chimney top is maybe half a meter taller than the peak of the roof. But with a huge lever arm for the chimney I could safely put up a pretty tall pole with the US 915 outdoor antenna on it. I doubt I could put up a 5m tall pole without cheesing off the neighbors though so it might only be like a 2m taller pole if I chose the chimney. Or I could cut down the tree.. Hehe

Nik - 11/13/2021​

Tough call. What's the tree blocking as far as other hotspots?

Matt - 11/14/2021​

I'd have to take a look, but it's definitely going to block at least 25 degrees in that direction (at least as far as direct LOS). It's "not far" from that tree. There are actually zero other hotspots directly blocked by that tree based on hotspotty, but that doesn't mean there won't be in the near future. Thinking of it, and ease of installation (because I'm going to have to hire someone to go on this roof, it's steep and I don't like heights to begin with), I may just do a short-ish™ pole with the antenna on it. Also, I see the HNTenna and notice it's only 3db gain. The region around us is pretty suburban, and I'd be shocked if another hotspot shows up within 500m of me. But if I look out our upper windows, besides a house or two in all directions, all I can see is trees beyond those houses. In total, visible (LOS) houses from my house is maybe 30 houses because the trees are so mature around here, not to mention we're bordered by a (forest) park. Should I consider going for a higher gain antenna in that case? I presume dipole of some kind? I mean, my best bet would be to put up a 30m tall pole, but...

Nik - 11/14/2021​

Height will be more important than antenna. In a highly treed area RF at our freqs is generally hard, so elevation will be your best bet. PoCv11 should even out the playing field for everybody, but it also means it'l be harder to get actual useful gain out of an antenna.

Cathy - 11/15/2021​

Great info. You seem like to like helping people. :) When I ordered my hot spot there were no others in my 'red zone'. However now, 5 mos later, there is one... however, there are also more now in my area overall and 3 in my 'sweet spot'. My question is I know the one in my red zone will cut into what mine earns but will the other ones in my sweet spot maybe make up for that? Asking b/c I do have a 'host' who is willing to let me place it at his house (none in his red zone) . Similar terrains, neighborhoods, homes, trees, and number of hot spots. I prefer it ay my house but not if having 1 in the red zone really does cut into rewards. Not hooked up yet... just got it. Thanks so much for your great info!!

Nik - 11/15/2021​

Hi Cathy, check this post on HIP 17, it'll help you make an informed decision.

Antony - 11/15/2021​

Hi Nik, or maybe someone know... I have a question about length of cable. I bought Bobcat and I need to buy outdoor antenna for miner, also cable for antenna with 40 meters length. 1) can miner work with 40 meters cable between antenna and miner 2) what type of Antenna I need 3) what type of cable I need

Heather McMahon - 11/15/2021​

I live in a pretty secluded area with a couple of green hexes. Although they have no witnesses not too far from me. Woodsy area with some hills and lakes. I am trying to decide between a 5.8 DBI & 8 DBI this will go outside high near my roof. I am torn on which one I should get. There is a city with a ton of hexes and witnesses about 26 miles from me.

Uknown - 11/15/2021​

Hi, I have ordered a bobcat 300 miner and I like to ask you about the antenna cable length. I understand that the length of the cable is 1 meter that comes with the miner. If I use a different antenna what is the maximum length of the cable I can use in order not to have a signal loss

Nik - 11/15/2021​

Depends on the type of cable you use, read this.

Nik - 11/15/2021​

5.8 will probably do well, just get it up high. Honestly there won't be a huge difference, especially after PoCv11 which levels out all radiated outputs. More on that here.

Nik - 11/15/2021​

Yes, read this. Probably LMR 900.

Andrew Holman - 11/15/2021​

Hi, thanks for the great info. I have a 5.8 antenna and was wondering if mounting it to a wall or in front of a window is best? This is on the 2nd story of my house. I do eventually plan to roof mount once I can get access. Also, I recently reinstalled the stock Rak wireless miner antenna too as I lost about 50% rewards for the week the 5.8 was connected and wall mounted. The unit with stock antenna was sitting in the window previously. Witnesses with the 5.8 dropped as well. Went from 13 to 8.

Matt B. - 11/15/2021​

Hi Nik, I am trying to trouble shoot for my brother in the Austin Texas area. He has a nebra outdoor and is unfortunately a bit far north of the city in Leander Tx. I imagine it as if he is really far from other hot spots and wants to reach the others towards the city so based on what I read he probably wants a mid to high gain antenna pointed specifically in the direction of the city until the network grows out north closer to him. Would this be the right train of thought and do you have a recommendation on antenna ? Thanks

Nik - 11/15/2021​

I'd stay away from high gain antennas and focus on finding a better location.

Lessons Learned From A Year Of Helium Deployments - Gristle King - A Guide to Helium - 11/15/2021​

[…] 6 months into this, after writ­ing the first few arti­cles (the Rough Guide and the one on choos­ing an anten­na specif­i­cal­ly), I start­ed get­ting phone calls from peo­ple need­ing help. At first it […]

MIke - 11/17/2021​

Hello, everyone. I need your advice. I am currently using the 4db antenna from Bobcat (about 2m High) and am wondering whether a 5db omnidirectional antenna (https://www.wimo.com/de/18003-868) or another antenna would make sense. my location: Little Magenta Dolphin There are tall buildings around me Or does it make sense to put a 2nd antenna over a splitter in the backyard? My building is made of reinforced concrete

Matt B. - 11/17/2021​

Not an option but appreciate your feed back. Austin Tx is a bit too dense with miners to find a "better" location . Were in the outskirts of town now so the goal is just to reach further distances. What antenna does best for that ?

Nik - 11/17/2021​

A standard RAK 5.8 from Parley Labs or the HNTenna will do fine with clear line of sight.

Matt B. - 11/17/2021​

Thanks Nik, I can't believe how many replies you've got on here! Do you have any material on understanding the need, if any, to ground these antennas outside on poles or in our case, a roof? Like, am I going to get hit by lightning and get the house burnt down?

Nik - 11/17/2021​

Well, technically you should ground every antenna, though it's usually more to protect your device from static discharge and less about preventing/stopping a lightning strike. If you look at most antennas on buildings (not just Helium ones) you'll see that plenty of them aren't grounded. If your antenna is easily the highest thing around and you have lightning storms regularly I'd be more worried about it. Again, technically you should, in practice many don't.

Rene bartum - 11/18/2021​

Thanks Nik for the great article! I was brought here by youtuber Anonymous Miner. I live in a city called Ocala, Florida. The city itself is pretty small considering Orlando, Florida is about 1 hour away. I used https://www.scadacore.com/ to help find elevations and line of sight. (Again thank you for all the information you placed above) I have 2 questions... 1) The goal is get to the highest elevation possible with no obstruction around? 2) There's probably a total of 10 hotspots in my area (compared to over 200+ in Orlando) Does the number of hotspots of witnesses reflect the amount of coins earned?

Nik - 11/18/2021​

Yes to 1. For 2, less than 40 hotspots makes it harder to reliably witness enough beacons to earn consistently at higher rates. You earn more per witnessed beacon with less miners, but there are less opportunities to witness beacons.

Johnny - 11/22/2021​

Hey gristle! I finally got my antenna up with 21 foot of lmr 400 and the HNTenna. 3dbi you recommended. I reported the dbi in the app accounting for the loss for the cable but not the arrester( another .4? I assume ). Is it detrimental if I don’t change it. I was always curious if what will happen if you report in the app incorrectly. Thank you !

Nik - 11/22/2021​

Hi Johnny, right on! I wouldn't worry too much about a loss of .4.

Thorsten - 11/25/2021​

Hi Nik, great summary. Thanks a lot for that. I wanna buy your recommended Antenna for outdoor on top of buildings (number 1 on your list). But this one is only for USA and Canada. Do you have by instance a recommendation for Europe? Greetings from Germany, Mate.

Nik - 11/25/2021​

Hi Thorsten, HNTenna makes a Euro version, here. :)

Perceival - 11/26/2021​

Hi Nik, My country is operating at AS923_1, zone3. Will the "USA/CAN (915) 902-928MHz White Outdoor Helium Antenna" work in my area? Thanks, appreciate your help.

Nik - 11/27/2021​

Hi Perceival, looks like that freq plan supports different bands; what country are you in?

Ivan - 11/29/2021​

Hello Nik, Thank you very much for publishing this. It is very good to understand better what we are supposed to achieve, i never had contact with info about radio waves and antennas and they are fascinating! I was looking the other day at some cellular towers, and they look like to use many directional antennas to achieve the 360 degree coverage. I'm on the highest floor of a 350' building with access to the roof, do you think I would benefit from this kind of setup? Is it possible to use multiple antennas on the helium network? Thank you very much for your time!

Nik - 11/29/2021​

Hi Ivan, Happy to help! I haven't yet seen a working Helium setup with multiple antennas. Lots of folks have tried it, but it's generally far more complicated and a PITA than just setting up an omnidirectional and getting the thing high.

Ivan - 11/29/2021​

Thank you for your reply Nik! Sure, they indeed look very complicated. I bought the RisingHF RHF2S308 hotspot with 8dbi antenna, I will try to use it stock, do you think i would benefit from using the Omnidirectional https://hntenna.com? Thanks again and have a great day!

Nik - 11/29/2021​

Depends on where you are. In the EU and other lower-power-radio zones, a higher gain can really help. In the US, in general, the lower gain antennas like the HNTenna will do really well.

John - 11/29/2021​

Hey Gris! I got decent miners around me. Some right next to me. And others 3-4 miner block spaces away. I live in an apartment on the bottom floor. Do you have any recommendation of where to put the antenna ? And what dbi to run. Im the US. Semi populated area. I was thinking of putting it right outside, hanging it right above my porch. Thank you

Nik - 11/30/2021​

Hi John, Yeah, get it outside and as high as possible.

Jackson - 11/30/2021​

Thanks for the great article. Is the goal to get as many witnesses as possible? If two miners are both earning the 1.00 reward scale would 100 witnesses do worst than one that witnesses 190? Would a higher witness count mean that the antenna is correctly being utilized for the typography that we are in. We are currently testing 8dbi, 12dbi and 16dbi, all outside about 10m off the ground.

Nik - 11/30/2021​

Hi Jackson, no, a beacon can only be witnessed by 10 other hotspots. If more than 10 hotspots witness that beacon, 10 are randomly selected.

Vladimir - 12/1/2021​

Hello Nik, thank you for all the information you share with us. Is a VSWR: ?1.63 ok for a 5 dbi antenna? https://store.rakwireless.com/products/5dbi-fiber-glass-antenna-supports-863-870mhz?variant=40024050270406 Thank you!

Nik - 12/1/2021​

Yep, anything under 2 is fine.

Phil - 12/7/2021​

Hi Gristle, I live in a very rural area with very few hotspots, my miner should be here any day now I am in the UK with the closest big group of hotspots within line of site are about 90km away across the sea. I'm 150m above sea-level with the antenna location 10m above that. Would a directional antenna be better for me

Nik - 12/7/2021​

Hi Phil, whew, those are big distances for the EU. Yep, I'd probably go directional, at least until PoCv11 comes online.

johnny - 12/7/2021​

Hey gristle, hope you been well. Setting up another hotspot next week at another buddies house. Its up on a hill, pretty decent view underneath not super high up though, but I would want to reach miners to the next city over about 35-38km (kent wa to seattle wa). (fat cluster of miners) going to mount it up on his chimey with lmr400 cable prob 25-30ft. Box will be wifi but in the same room as the router probably 15ft away. I got a 8-9 dbi antenna( cant remember) as part of a bundle with my purchase. Is that too powerful of an antenna since im a bit up hill with elevation. or should i get something like a 5.8 rak wireless. Also, is there a way im suppose to be facing the antenna, like which part of the antenna is forward lol thank you! keep up the good work, you are the light of the helium community XD haha

Nik - 12/7/2021​

5.8 will prolly be fine, but you should def test that (blog post here on how to test antennas). Dude, put in the effort to get that thing wired via ethernet, NOT WiFi. WiFi will cause you heartache. If the antenna is directional (usually a square or blocky shape) it'll matter which way you face it. Otherwise, it won't.

johnny - 12/7/2021​

You are right gristle, ima whip my butt into shape. Im just gonna run 30ft of lmr400 instead of 28ft and run it down the chipney so i can get my miner next to my modem to be connected via ethernet!!! lol. If 5.8 is good enough, i guess il set my 8dbi aside and buy a 5.8! is rak a good one or do you have recommendation between 5.8-7dbi to buy. thx

Yeah! - 12/7/2021​

Hey mate. I am reading again and again to take everything in! May I ask? You mention that "our antennas won´t blast through much more than 2 buildings". Is this true for the european miners too that work in different frequencies? I am a bit new into this, so excuse me if this totally off. If it's right though, it would explain why my 2 isolated miners do not witness each other, while they are in a distance of approx 300-400 meters. Thanks again! *(Large Lavender Wasp, if you fancy taking a look :-)

Nik - 12/7/2021​

Yep, though it's less the frequency difference and more the power output; much lower in EU868. Cheers, Nik

Aaron Olson - 12/9/2021​

I bought a 10 dbi antenna with 33' of cord. It doesn't seem like the best quality cord. Approximately what is my dbi?

Nik - 12/9/2021​

Hi Aaron, the product you linked to says " 32.8FT RG58 SMA cable ,include 1pcs RP-SMA adapter". Best case you're looking at a loss of 4.482 dB from the cable and a gain of 10 from the antenna. There are def better options. :)

Hans - 12/10/2021​

Hi Nik, with a lot of enthusiasm I read your posts. You impart an incredible amount of knowledge about helium and everything that goes with it. Many thanks for it! I live in Berlin and in the near future I will install a helium miner on the roof of one of the highest buildings in the city (125m). I expect a bit of a coverage shadow, because the antenna has to be placed on one side of the buildings roof and the length of the mast is limited by the maximum allowed total height. The plan is to use a ground plane antenna with 5.15dbi. After reading your post I am a bit unsure if the antenna gain might be too high. What is your opinion about this? With best regards from Berlin. Hans

Nik - 12/10/2021​

Wie gehts Hans! You've reached the limits of my high school German. ;) I think the 5.15 dBi is fine. Test it and see, but I wouldn't worry too much about antennas.

Erick Cortes - 12/13/2021​

Hello friend first of all I wanted to congratulate you for all the valuable information that is here! I wanted to ask you which antenna do you recommend? I live in an area where there are many hills and houses around it, I am like in a hole, the closest hotspots are after 10km and the furthest 40, all of them are at a higher altitude ... I can put an 8dbi antenna at a great height ??

Erdi - 12/13/2021​

Hello, thanks for the info. I have 2 questions. 1.Is it a huge problem if I install a 3dbi antenna slightly tilted on a high building ? 2. What is the best dbi antenna for a bay area (seaside with low elevation like 3 - 4 m near sea - across coasts are around 10 to 20 km away)?

Nik - 12/13/2021​

Thanks Erick! Getting the antenna up high is way more important than the type of antenna. Any of the good ones will do; HNTenna, Mcgill, L-com, etc.

Nik - 12/13/2021​

Hi Erdi, I'd work pretty hard to make the the antenna is correctly oriented and not tilted, although at 3 dBi the gain pattern will probably allow for a little error of vertical. "Best dBi" is a red herring. Any decent quality antenna will work well, getting it high is the important part. 10-20km over water is easy for LoRa.

Stacey - 12/13/2021​

Hello, I just ordered 2 miners. I live in a very rural area I have two other miners 13 miles away then the closest ones are 30 to 50 km away. Terrain is mostly flat. I plan to mount the antenna outside about 30 ft high maybe a little higher. What antenna and other equipment should I be looking at.

Nik - 12/13/2021​

That's not very close; I'd set your expectations low for earnings until you have more hotspots within, say, 5 km. A higher gain antenna might help, although getting the antenna itself higher is what will make far more difference.

Duane Lusted - 12/14/2021​

Hi Nik, Only just got into Mining a few days ago, and have a 3 month wait like others for my Linxdot. Live in the UK, and live in a normal 2 story house. Got a few hotspots around where I live, but then others are like 10 miles away. Been reading that UK have max 16dBm, but wanting to go with outdoor Antenna instead of the 3dBi indoor it comes with to increase chances of earnings. So, going by that and the new PoCV11, I assume I want to go a max 4.5dBi (looking at Paradar 868 one)? Or should I just get a max 3dBi outdoor one?

Nik - 12/14/2021​

Hi Duane, getting the antenna outdoors and up high will be way more important than type of antenna. Either of those (3 or the 4.5) look fine. Enjoy getting it all set up!

Tony - 12/16/2021​

Hi Nik, Dig the content. I am a complete newbee. Have my first miner in hand. I am going to try to get it all up and running in January. I live in South Jordan Ut. The topography is rather flat except for the other houses going up in the area. I have a Direct TV antenna on the house that is no longer used. I was thinking of putting an extension on it of 5 feet or so. And getting an antenna that is 48". Not sure what to buy? 5.6 dBI? Will run cable on outside of house. Will need 30 ft or so. Will the LMR 400 work? Can I add additional miners? Thanks and have a great Christmas.

Nik - 12/16/2021​

Hey Tony, welcome to GK-land! 5.8 dBi is fine for your antenna. Getting it up high and outside will give you the best performance. Read this to help you understand the density requirements. Rock on.

Jurgis - 12/17/2021​

Hello, i appreciate all this info here, I’m interested in buying this miner and antenna, would you think I’d be able to mine anything or connect with someone else if I live in small city approx 500ppl, got 2 hotspots like 15km away in little more populated city 4000ppl it’s at the same sea level as me but there’s forests starting after like 2km from my location. In Europe, Latvia main city is Riga ,there are many miners There it’s about 60km away But the sea level there Is about 200ft less than at my location but also there’s forests between, I live in 3rd story and I could get antenna on roof which would be like +10metres. Just wondering if there would be any antenna that could get me a connection that far or is it profitable with no connections. I find it hard to find information on this. Any help thanks!

Nik - 12/17/2021​

Hi Jurgis, you probably won't connect with the situation you described, but I'm betting new Hotspots will pop up in your city soon.

Con - 12/17/2021​

Hey Nik, Thank you for the great article. I'm on the 5th floor of a 8th floor condo. Would I need to ground an antenna mounted on my condo balcony door window? If so, would a lightning arrestor suffice?

Nik - 12/17/2021​

Technically you should ground all outdoor antennas. Lightning arrestor is part of that chain for sure. In practice you'll find many antennas ungrounded, even by pros. Your mileage may vary.

Elton Hammonds - 12/18/2021​

After reading your article, I'm confused by your statement about just forgetting yagi antennas. Why? I've just ordered my Bobcat 300 and outdoor kit with sun shade from RAK. I'll be monitoring the internal component temps closely and am planning to possibly buy a bigger box, crack open the miner to install some heat syncs and cooling fan arrangement to keep it running at optimal temps while adding a thermostat that will monitor the temp inside the box, triggering a cooling fan for the box when it gets too hot inside. Either way, I plan to mount it about 4-5 feet oof the ground onto a pole that will likely be about 30 feet tall. For an aerial, I was thinking of connecting two antennas. The first would be a whip like this one: Signalplus Lora 868/915MHz 900-930MHZ 15dBi Fiberglass Antenna 86inch for Helium Bobcat HNT Hotspot Lora IoT Bobcat Miner Miner Longfi LoRaWAN Blockchain https://www.amazon.com/dp/B092RVG7JZ/ref=cm\_sw\_r\_apan\_glt\_fabc\_CTWF3Q215J9Y2RXSQ07R?\_encoding=UTF8&psc=1 The second would be this yagi, which I would be properly pointed at an area about 15 miles away with many more miners than I have in my immediate area: https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/rf-solutions/ANT-MF-YAG23/5845729 My plan, as I've imagined it so far, is to use a coax splitter at the top, which I am guessing might cost me 3-5dbi and figure I will have the best possible chance of really helping form a bridge for the helium network into my area by using that particular yagi in conjunction with that particular whip 30 feet up, so as to not be blocked by trees and 2 story houses. But, you're saying the Bobcat will absolutely not allow this??? Based on what? I know the dbi actual total dbi will be slightly diminished based on running on 915mhz, by the splitter and furthermore by the 30 feet of coax to the bottom of the mast. But you say this won't work with the Bobcat 300 because the Helium network won't allow for it? Where do you get that information from? I haven't read that anywhere yet. I'm not saying you're wrong, but I just haven't read it anywhere yet. I have a long background in military communications and had given quite a bit of thought to it based on my geography here in central Florida, just north of New Port Richey, and my familiarly with wavelength propagation. Thanks for posting this article and I hope to hear back from you here or by email at [email redacted] thanks ?

Nik - 12/19/2021​

Hi Elton, it's definitely not that the Bobcat or Helium won't "allow" it. There is a long and thorough conversation about the whole thing over here. You're thinking in terms of normal radio communications, where it's Ok if a signal is too strong, or you can still pull useful info out of a signal that's slightly too weak. With Helium, the signal has to fall within a much narrower range in order to "prove" it's where/what it "says" it is. IF you're going to use a splitter (which I generally don't recommend as it adds complexity and decreases signal strength to both antennas), both antennas will need to have the same gain. That's because you can only report one gain to the app, so if your whip is 15 dBi the yagi will also have to be 15 dBi. In the specific model you linked, it's not, it's 23 dBi. So you'd have to use an attenuator to bring it down, which will complicate things and negate the whole purpose of using a yagi. You could, if you like playing with radios and math, futz around with an amplifier for the whip, although that's also not recommended. Because 915 and specifically LoRa is such a robust carrier of small packets of data, you don't need to do anything fancy. With clear line of sight (which you'd need anyway for the yagi) you can easily go 30km, and I've seen up to 200km over water. I mean, I get it. When I first found Helium I thought I could apply a previous career's understanding of RF to make "the ultimate antenna setup." I understand the intent to apply past experience to this in order to increase value/coverage etc. I'm not saying it won't work, it's just generally not worth the effort. Helium is built to keep things ultra simple. Just get a low gain antenna up high, report loss accurately to reflect EIRP, and you'll be doing the best you can do for a given location. Remember, *location* is critical to earnings. Antennas & cables & connectors and loss are what give you the last 10% or so of your earnings.

Nash Willis - 12/19/2021​

Hi Nick, I live in Clinton wa. 98236. I would think I could order number 4 on your list and roof mount it and point it at Everett. But I do have one close to me and that and one more within 5 miles of me. Thank you, Nash

Nik - 12/19/2021​

Hi Nash, just updated the post. I used to recommend those patch antennas, but that was before PoCv11. There's just not that useful anymore. If you get an HNTenna up high you'll be doing about as well as you can do, although you can def try other antennas as well. The big obstacle will be not that many hotspots near you.

Aaron Olson - 12/25/2021​

Thanks for the post. I out mine in the attic for two days and it got more witnesses, but less HNT and less overall activities. Should I put it in a spot with more activity and more HNT or in the spot with more witnesses?

Hans - 12/27/2021​

My sister is in a great spot central Charlotte, NC. Only one other on her Hex. I have a stock 4DBi antenna on a Bobcat miner in her office window on second floor. Could I do better 10-15 ft higher up INSIDE her attic? What antenna would be good for inside an attic and close to downtown of a city.

Nik - 12/27/2021​

Antenna won't matter much, 3-6 dBi is fine. Under-report on app to punch through known attenuators.

Hans - 12/28/2021​

Thank you Nik. Would you say window on second floor is better.. or attic 15 ft higher with the stock 4DBI. Currently getting 1.0 scale and 36 witnesses in window. When you say under-report... are you referring to if the antenna is 4 DBI.. put 2.8? Something like that? Really appreciate your service to the community.

Nik - 12/28/2021​

Yep, you're offsetting for the known attenuation of your attic. Can't emphasize enough that you should test that prior to doing it.

Jamie - 12/30/2021​

Why are directional antennas no longer recommended after PoCv11? Would the longer range of a 9dbi directional antenna not pass validity checks, as the system assumes the range should be within the parameters of a 9dbi omni antenna?

Nik - 12/31/2021​

Hi Jamie, they were never really that useful in the Helium space. I tried a bunch of 'em thinking they'd outperform omnis, but so far that hasn't proven true for my deployments. The range isn't an issue; a 3 dBi will reach 200 km, so there's no "range" reason to get a higher gain antenna.

Matthew Yim - 12/31/2021​

Hello again! So I noticed that the antenna you recommended that looks like a dome is only 3dbi. Do you recommend that over rak wireless 5.8dbi? I’m in a suburban area , specifically ashburn, va if you wanna take a look.

Matthew Yim - 12/31/2021​

Wow to your most recent comment about 3dbi reaching 200km! I had no idea that was the case?!? Then why are so many people opting for higher gain antennas?

Nik - 12/31/2021​

Hi Matthew, antennas don't really matter. I've been using the 3 dBi HNTenna with good results, but any of the good antennas from 3-5.8 will be fine.

Nik - 12/31/2021​

I don't know why so many people are using high gain antennas. Probably a mistaken belief that "bigger is better".

Zach - 12/31/2021​

I'm about 3/4 up on a small mountain/large hill. I just deployed my hotspot with a Rokland 6dbi about 4 days ago. Might be a bit early to tell, but only witnessing about 3 times a day, and being witnessed about 5 times a day (less than .1 HNT per day). Reading this, I'm wondering if going lower would be wiser since most everyone on the side that isn't blocked by the mountain is below me. However, some of the HS I've witnessed are doing close to .7-1.0 HNT per day with antennas with higher gain than me 7.5-9dbi. Very confusing which route to go here, but also limited timeframe on the data to really make an assessment. I also input exactly 6dbi into the app and wonder if that affects my results as well.

Nik - 12/31/2021​

Hey Zach, let it go another day or so before you make a final decision. Earnings probably have less to do with the antenna than the location. Location is critical.

Justin B - 12/31/2021​

Hey so I have a question, I have a freedomFi miner that comes with a tiny little 1.2 dBi antenna. It's a relatively new set up. I've got the device sitting next to my second story Window, and it just doesn't seem to be witnessing or being witnessed very often. I've witnessed devices and been witnessed before, but none of my beacons have been seen in the past 2 days, and I haven't witnessed any of my neighbors either, so I'm not really sure what's going on. I can't realistically mount an antenna up any higher due to my HOA, but I can probably put a relatively covert outdoor antenna right outside my Window, as long as I don't drill any holes in the building. Central Massachusetts if it matters. Is this likely worth my time / money? Or is it likely that I'm just not in a good location.

Nik - 1/2/2022​

If you can't mount it higher and you're not getting the results you want, I'd look for another location.

Mike B - 1/3/2022​

I have a question. I currently have a 5.8dbi Omni directional that is attached to a PVC pipe that is attached to the conduit pipe with electrical wires leading into my house. Could the close proximity to those electrical wires be causing my terribly low earnings? The actual antenna is probably 6 ft above the wires but the coaxial does rum down beside it. Thanks in advance!

Ed - 1/4/2022​

Hi Nik, Great information. Thank you! I have a Linxdot miner on order(only one with a reasonable delivery) and getting my site ready. I am in the hills in rural area at 900' AGL. There are multiple miners in front of me in a clear line of sight at an elevation of ~ 300' AGL. My clear line of sight view shed is ~150 degrees. All miners are in this view and between 8- 15km away. I was planning on mounting the antenna outdoors on a building, mast height ~ 45' AGL. I will be just below the deciduous tree canopy which would be 150' in front of the proposed location. It should be noted that there is a radio tower 500' away (behind the proposed location) from proposed location at 150' AGL with fire and police columniations equipment. My concern is having enough reach to hit the miners in my view. Reading through your info i learned that i should not use a high gain antenna but most likely a low or medium gain. What antenna i be looking fo? Can you make a recommendation? I am happy to pay a consulting fee to pick your brain as i want to get this right. Take care, Ed

Nik - 1/4/2022​

Unlikely. Earnings are far more a function of location and elevation than antennas/cables etc.

Nik - 1/4/2022​

Hi Ed, if you're surrounded by trees it'll be a tough push to get out no matter what antenna you use. I might go with a 5.8 and under-assert gain to give it a little more punch getting through the trees.

Ron - 1/10/2022​

Hey Nik, Reading through your articles and comments on articles. Are you saying that asserting the dbi in the app will actually impact your signal to the antenna? I bought a hotspot off a friend and he only had an 8dbi antenna, it's up in my attic until the snow melts and I can get on the roof. No one was witnessing my beacons, but I set the antennae in the app to 5Dbi and now more witnesses. Is this expected if the app setting does have an impact? (have a 5.8dbi on order now, i think the 8 is too much)

Nik - 1/10/2022​

Hi Ron, Asserting the dBi will only decrease signal power if the asserted gain puts you over the legal limit. Otherwise, the asserted gain is just used in the calcs. Does that make sense?

Andrés Martínez - 1/10/2022​

Hi Nik, thanks for the info! My hotspot is 25m high and theres only like three buildings around the city, and the city is kind of flat. Would you recommend me a 5.8dbi antenna?

Nik - 1/10/2022​

That should work fine. :)

Mike - 1/11/2022​

Hi Nik -- I finally got a couple hotspots deployed using some of the knowledge gained from you, including this article. One of my recent hotspots (Elegant Turquoise Panda - a bobcat currently with manufacturer antenna sitting in a window) is positioned such that it seems to be witnessing & getting witnessed by hotspots that have lower transmit scales. I am in the process of putting up the "oil can" 3 dbi HNTenna outdoors, as that had been my plan since researching all this last summer. However, I have really started to question whether this will have any better result (OR may actually hurt current results!) than the current setup. In thinking through ways to optimize the setup, I have noticed there are many more hotspots with higher transmit scales to the north. So I came back to this article and, like some of the other comments here, I noted that you removed the recommendation for a directional ("patch?") antenna. I thought that might be a good solution to get more activity with higher transmit scale hotspots. I know "outside and up" is recommended, so I am going forward with the HNTenna, but if a directional antenna might help exclude lower transmit scales, wouldn't that make sense? Thanks in advance. I've really appreciated your articles and see that I've gotten behind a bit!

Nik - 1/11/2022​

It's an interesting idea, to aim your coverage at "high quality" hotspots. The only way to know for sure is to test it, but...the location itself is the driver of earnings. A "bad" location is hard to overcome, no matter what you do with elevation, pointing, antennas, etc.

Mike - 1/11/2022​

Thanks so much! I think it is a good location -- up on the ridge on which downtown KC lies and, given the first few days with the basics and being indoors, it appears to be earning at to slightly above the network average. I'll let the comment thread know how the switch to HNTenna outdoors works... Next question is "What was the directional antenna you had recommended back in the earlier version of the article?" Also, since it seems you have gotten away from deployments with directional antennas, would you happen to have one you want to get out of your way for cheap? ;-) Again, Thank you!

Nik - 1/11/2022​

The heavy duty 9 dBi patch from L-com. I'll hold onto mine for other projects, but they're pretty cheap anyway.

Kevin - 1/14/2022​

Hi Nik, what dBi would you recommend for a hilly terrain? I currently have a 5.8 dBi about 20 feet from the ground on top of my house. However, I sit in a depression on 3 sides and moving to another location isn't really an option. I know if I could get it higher it would be better, but what if I can't? Would a 3 dBi be better because of the wider angle to get it out and up and for diffraction or maybe I am understanding that wrong? Not super worried about range, if I could pick up more of the other hotspots within 5km of me I would be happy. Thanks for your time.

Ernest - 1/14/2022​

Hey Nik, I live in the suburbs on a hill and have an antenna on top of my roof about 40~ feet above ground. I am running 40ft of LMR400, which comes down to about 1.57db of loss. I used to run a 5.8db antenna in my attic when I had near 0 loss. Now that I've put it on the roof, I swapped to an 8dbi antenna to offset the 1.57db loss from the long cable. Was this a valid action or do you think there would be better coverage with the old 5.8db antenna? For reference, I used to get around 300 witnesses and ~80 witnesses with the miner and antenna in my attic.

Nik - 1/14/2022​

Hi Kevin, a 3 dBi antenna (and gain pattern) might help provide broader coverage, but I wouldn't expect a huge change. The obstacle is earth, and no amount of (reasonable) gain will get through a hill.

Mike - 1/14/2022​

What type of material can be used for antenna mast. Since these miners seem so light I was thinking of mounting my syncrobit and rak 5.8 antennas using 1.5 " PVC 20 ft high . But im reading generally PVC is a poor material?? I also presume I would still want to use a lighting arrestor although I understand the rak antenna has grounding? Using PVC would I have to ground the mast??

Nik - 1/14/2022​

Hi Mike, PVC is probably not the best material for long term outdoor deployments. I use metal masts, 4130 steel (which is probably overkill.) No matter what mast type, you should use a lightning arrestor and run a wire to ground.

Michael - 1/15/2022​

Trying to decide between a Hntenna 902-928MHz, and a McGill. Location is flat, in an area well populated with miners. Elevation would be 30ft.

Nik - 1/15/2022​

Probably not a huge difference. Location & elevation drive earnings. Both are good antennas.

Patrick - 1/15/2022​

Hi Nik, Thank you for really great information. I saw some youtube clips with a guy having similar surrondings as me having good success with a Yagi antenna. So I was thinking of getting one. Then I saw here that you say don't bother with the Yagi. Why is that? Is there some other brand you would prefer if going the directional route? Thanks a lot! Patrick

Nik - 1/15/2022​

Typically the Yagi beams are too narrow to cover a broad area, which is what the Helium ecosystem generally wants.

Michel - 1/18/2022​

Hye Nik, A high gain antenna might anyway be very useful for acquiring more IoT devices signals... So, I would not discourage 10-12 dBi antennas ...

Nik - 1/18/2022​

Hi Michel, hmm, I don't think that's correct. Talking with BFGNeil, the way a high gain works and the protocol sensor data is transmitted on aren't a great match.

Zeth L. - 1/23/2022​

Hey Nik, I live in a pretty rural suburban area (flat land, mostly 1 and 2 story houses around, no extremely tall buildings) closest hotspot is around 4km away. I just received a SenseCap M1, and I have it set up with the stock antenna (1.2 dbi I belive) mounted high in a window about 12 ft/3.3m above the ground. Reading your info I assume a 3dbi antenna would suffice if I were to mount it roughly 20-40 ft above the ground and outdoors. The name of my hotspot is Overt Silver Viper in North Carolina. If you could let me know your recommendation and opinion, that would be much appreciated. Thanks!

Jeff S. - 1/25/2022​

Hi Nik, Thanks for the interesting piece and while a lot of the jargon is over my head my takeaway is location is key and that the right antenna for the right topography makes a difference. I have a SenseCap M1 about 25' above ground level on my roof with an 8 dbi antenna. Switching from my bedroom window with my 3 dbi to my current set up made a difference but not as much as I would have expected. My pattern looks quite a bit like your NY example showing attenuation and topography (I am Tangy Cobalt Python if you care to look). I will try going back to the 3 dbi on the roof to see what happens. If that shows even better results would purchasing a 5dbi possibly given better results than both 3dbi and 8dbi? Or would 3 dbi and 5 dbi likely be about the same? Thanks in advance

Nik - 1/25/2022​

Hi Jeff, it's always a little bit of "test and see" when it comes down to it. I don't think you'll see a huge difference no matter what you do antenna-wise, the key will probably be getting it higher.

Allan - 1/30/2022​

Hey Nik, Love all your content especially your Youtube channel! :) Quick question: I live near the ocean which obviously extends out flat, but behind us there is a significant hill that rises up quickly. Lot's of hotspots on the otherside of the hill but probably unreachable... My thinking was to put up a 9 db omni antenna or maybe* a mcgill 10 db directional and point it across the water and go for the hotspots 10-25 kms away as I see a lot of local hotspots with low transmit ratings and thinking maybe they will drag me down a bit. Thanks! Allan

Nik - 1/30/2022​

Yep, not unreasonable to routinely hit that distance across the water, but you won't need 10 dBi or even 9 for that. A 3 or a 6 will be fine. I've got a 3 that routinely hits over 100 km away over water, sometimes as far as 200 km. 30 km is nothing. :)

DANIEL KAUFFMAN - 2/3/2022​

Do you have a rule of thumb for how you weigh the trade-off between putting an antenna up as high as possible vs. the loss from additional LMR400 cable length? For example: If I am putting an antenna on top of my residential roof in a suburban area, am I typically better off with a very short mast and ~3' of LMR400 cable, or a 30' mast with ~33' of LMR400 cable? Ideally, one would want a 30' mast and ~3' of cable, but that would require putting the helium hotspot outside at the top of the mast which has some complexities and limitations. My initial hypothesis is that height is more important than cable loss, so a taller 30' mast with ~33' of LMR400 cable would earn more than a very short mast with minimal cable loss.

Nik - 2/3/2022​

Agree re. height being more important than cable length/loss. At 30' you're not losing much on LMR400.

Drei - 2/9/2022​

I have been looking for anyone mentioning multiple Antennas. Could you have 1 that reaches further and 1 that reaches wider in your area? So one higher up and one lower? What about 2 hotspots at the same location, 1 with the 9dbi further reach higher up so it covers the whole city and the 2nd one with a 4/5dbi so it covers the wider area?

Nik - 2/9/2022​

Hi Drei, technically you can do this, practically it's usually not worth the hassle. The coverage from even a 9 dBi isn't as narrow as I draw it in the pictures. The location will be far more important than the actual setup on the location. Video on this topic here.

Ioannis F. - 2/11/2022​

Hello NIK Thank you for the article and all the info, really great! I am waiting for my Sensecap M1 this Monday and I would like your advice about upgrading the antenna. My height is 100m+ (high rise apartment), my180degrees (front) is unobstructed and quite flat( Qatar ) , 180 degrees on the back the same but my building will be blocking. Unfortunately most of the available hotspots are on the back and some on the front..does an upgrade on the antenna be worth it? I can’t go higher. Thanks for any time you put to share some advice.

Nik - 2/11/2022​

Hi Ioannis, I'd start with the stock antenna for 3-5 days and see how well it does. If you're hitting in a nice pattern all around you there's no huge need to upgrade. LoRa is pretty robust and can get through a building or two.

Drei - 2/15/2022​

Hi Nik, thanks for the previous, reply. If I read up a little more... which I did, I would have found out the answer. One thing worth mentioning to others is that if you want to run 2 hotspots in the same area, try at least different squares, or have 2 isps, since using 1 isp will cause troubles and can become invalidated. Now, in the UK it seems my choices are limited. What do you and anyone else from the UK recommend? 1) mcgill microwave 4dbi 2) mcgill microwave 6dbi 3) paradar 4.5dbi 4) paradar 6.5dbi My location is London Suburbs towards Essex (Brentwood). One one hand I have London, on the other the countryside. I realise that in London my signal is going to stop the moment it reaches any flats or high buildings, which now you get everywhere.

Nik - 2/15/2022​

Hi Drei, any of those will be fine. If you want to support the GK blog you can use this link for the McGills; they give me a referral fee for that at no cost to you. No big deal if you don't, it's just an option. I haven't seen the paradars but as long as they're not knock-off cheapies they'll do a good job as well. There WILL be slight differences in all of 'em, but you'll have to test to figure it out, and from what you've described, any of those gains is a great place to start.

Dan - 2/15/2022​

Hey I got a pretty stupid question, but I want to make sure. I want to buy LMR - 600 with my Panther X2. On their site it says this "LoRa Antenna - RP-SMA-K". Which connector should I have on my LMR in order to connect it to that miner.

Drei - 2/16/2022​

Hi Nik, of course I will use the referral link:)

Nik - 2/16/2022​

Thank you!

Omar - 2/17/2022​

Hi nick. I almost follow and read all your articles tried to apply most of the scenario could quite my location. But still in a very bad rewards.. I'm in 70 meter high building behind me the mountains in front of me the hall city. I used 5 dbi I'm no 8 and 12. All of them did nothing. I tried to use the filter. Then directional 8 dbi antenna still my rewards are very bad. Around me lot of p2p internet providers and many higher tower for gsm and tv satellites.. I'm so confused .tried so many ways but nothing helps my sensecap miners or votes miners. However in my cou try it's not easy to get the McGill it rak antenna we are only using the Chinese made antennas. But what to do. 8 months of searching trying and experiments. That's one of my miner try to check and tell me if there's some issues I didn't noticed (Brave carmine donkey) now hooked the 8 dbi directional. Lmr400 4 meters. Open port real up and stable power as well. Many that is in advance. Cheers buddy.

Nik - 2/17/2022​

You're one of the highest earning Hotspots in the area, there's probably not much more you can do. Great job so far!

CARLOS MOENCK - 2/20/2022​

HELLO I WOULD LIKE YOUR HELP IN CHOOSING THE BEST ANTENNA FOR MY NEW SENSECAP M1 THAT ARRIVES ON WEDNESDAY. I LIVE IN MIAMI, SOUTHWEST, WHERE MOST OF THE BUILDINGS ARE BETWEEN 1 AND 2 STORIES HIGH, BUT THERE ARE LOTS OF BIG, LEAFY TREES. SO MY QUESTION IS THE FOLLOWING, KNOWING THAT I WILL PUT MY ANTENNA AT A HEIGHT OF 4 METERS, I CAN'T PUT IT HIGHER THAN THAT: 1- PLACE AN 8 DBI OMNIDIRECTIONAL RAK ANTENNA. OR 2- PLACE A 3 DBI MULTIPOLARIZED OMNIDIRECTIONAL ANTENNA LIKE THE ONES SOLD BY HN ANTENNA. I THOUGHT ABOUT THE FIRST OPTION BECAUSE WITH THE 8 DBI ANTENNA AND MY LOW HEIGHT I CAN REACH EVERYWHERE AND PASS ANY OBSTACLE LIKE TREES AND HOUSES HIGHER THAN THE HEIGHT OF MY ANTENNA. I THOUGHT ABOUT THE SECOND OPTION BECAUSE OF THE OPPORTUNITY TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THE MULTIPOLARITY BUT I THINK THAT THE 3 DBI INTENSITY WOULD BE LIMITING MY POSSIBILITIES TO REACH MORE HOTSPOTS DUE TO MY LOW HEIGHT. SO I APPEAL TO YOUR HELP AND EXPERT OPINION ON THE SUBJECT HELIUM, FEEL FREE TO RECOMMEND ME WHAT IN MY CASE YOU WOULD DO. AND IF YOU HAVE PURCHASE LINKS FOR THE TWO VARIANTS IT WOULD ALSO BE OF GREAT HELP. THANK YOU IN ADVANCE FOR YOUR VALUABLE HELP AND COOPERATION WITH THE HELIUM COMMUNITY AND HAVE A HAPPY SUNDAY.

Nik - 2/20/2022​

Hi Carlos, if you're that low and have to punch through trees, a 6 dBi from McGill will get you the best of both worlds. Link here: https://grstl.ink/mcgill-6dbi

CARLOS MOENCK - 2/20/2022​

THANKS A LOT GRISTLE KING YOU ARE THE BEST

Shukhrat - 2/28/2022​

Hi Nik, Very helpful article. What would you recommend for me? I live on a hill with lots of trees and 2-3 story buildings. Basically New England. The hotspot is nice vanilla jaguar. The back of the house is pretty much blocked by the hill. However, I plan on putting my miner up on a tree, probably 50-75' up in the air. Hopefully, that can help with the hill. What would you recommend for antenna?

belvin.jerrod - 2/28/2022​

Hi Nik, I am getting ready to put a hotspot @ a friends house. Hotspotty & HV mark it as a GREAT spot & simulation. Due to his HOA, he cannot have an antenna on the house. That being said we can get it up to the attic. Which antenna would we use? The Hntenna indoor or outdoor? Thanks

Nik - 2/28/2022​

Prolly a higher gain if you have to put it inside.

Shukhrat - 2/28/2022​

Hi Nik, I had posted a question earlier today. Would you be able to give an antenna recommendation?

Nik - 2/28/2022​

The McGill 6 should be fine: https://grstl.ink/mcgill-6dbi

Chris Evans - 3/12/2022​

Hi Nik, thanks for the continued quality content! HNTenna doesn't have a 915MHz option for AUS/NZ, will the US/CAN one work with my 915MHz hotspot here in AUS? If not, do you have any ideas on suppliers that manufacture multi-polarized antennas for the AUS/NZ 915MHz network? Cheers mate, appreciate all the great work you do. :) Chris

Nik - 3/13/2022​

Yep, the US915 will work just fine over there. I checked with David de Haaij on this, you've got an "expert" go ahead from him. :)

J-F - 3/14/2022​

Hi Nik, Do you known Laird Antenna? I would your knowledge in Multi Polarized Laird Multi https://www.digikey.ca/en/products/detail/laird-connectivity-inc./TRAB9023NP/3521732 vs HnTenna ANT-NH900. Did you known if this antenna is similar? The Antenna is cheaper like hntenna and no custom and duty to Canada. Regards J-F

Nik - 3/14/2022​

Looks like a 3 dBi antenna, I don't see anything about multi-polarization. Another 3 dBi option is the McGill.

pcste - 3/14/2022​

Hi Nik Im still a bit confused about cable loss. I'm looking to put an antenna on a roof in a small city in uk (no high buldings around but a bit of a hill on one side) was going to get a mcgill 3dbi. i have to run nearly 40ft of lmr-400 cable which would give me a loss of 1.7db does that mean my antenna then becomes 1.3dbi ? if i am running a lot of cable should i choose a 4dbi or 6dbi because of cable loss? Thanks

Nik - 3/14/2022​

It won't change the radiation pattern, but it will bring the signal strength down to 1.3 as you've calculated. A 4 or 6 dbi antenna might be a better option there. I'd test your stock antenna first, you might be surprised by performance.

Richard edwards - 3/15/2022​

Hi Nik, great info. Seriously, good advice for noobs. However, I disagree with some points. Firstly, high gain antennas should always be first choice. All the sites I designed for the first UK national IoT network had procom 9dBi antennas, be the sites 10m or 70m high. So many people make this mistake. Secondly, higher gain antennas do not fly over the top due to being laser like. The diagrams are just the 3dB beamwidth (area where power is half of maximum). Coverage is still provided outside this area. Added to high elevation and you're still good. For example, the sites we had in London provided good coverage even down the thin narrow streets with high buildings either side. Thirdly, correct about indoor propagation loss.. with the sigfox network i worked on 5m inside was OK, but much more than that was a problem. Quite happy to provide more info on cellular network radio planning, performance and optimisation.

Nik - 3/15/2022​

Hi Richard, great points on the overshoot; I've got to update that graphic. :) Keep in mind that with Helium, people are deploying to maximize earnings, not provide sensor coverage. In the early growth of the network, high gain antennas were penalized. At this point (March 2022) the gain doesn't matter much, so a high gain is fine. Interesting to hear from a real world expert, thanks so much for chiming in!

Bryan - 3/18/2022​

Hi Nik, Thanks so much for the information! I just got a SenseCap M1 and set it up (Brave Cornflower Rattlesnake). I live in an area that is a bit congested with other miners at resolution 10 there is 1 too many and at resolution 4 there are 455 too many so, the transmit scale all around me hovers around .50 - .65. There are nearby cities that have really sparse network density (all resolutions are wide open) and when I witness units there they have full transmit scales. There is probably room for improvement with my setup - maybe trying to optimize for reaching out to the less populous networks using an 8 or 9dBi antenna? I rent a townhome with thin roofs (no insulation and asphalt shingles) and currently have my miner set up, indoors, in a window sill on the 3rd floor and am using the included 2.6dBi antenna. I might be able to mount an exterior antenna to the outside wall of my unit (though the HOA might not like that). Today I found that I have access to the attic and can mount the antenna about 15-20 feet higher than I would be able to mount it on the outside of my unit. What would you suggest as the best setup? 1. Get an aftermarket antenna and park it in the window sill (25-28 feet high). 2. Get an aftermarket antenna and mount it to the outside wall of my unit (25 - 32 feet high, maybe). 3. Get an aftermarket antenna and mount it in the attic (35-40 feet high). After a few hours of googling I can’t find a good resource on how much power I may lose putting it in the attic (some people say as much as 50%).

Nik - 3/19/2022​

Higher is usually better, at those distances you can manage the cable loss with thicker cable (LMR400 or 600).

Terry - 3/21/2022​

Hi Nik, Im considering to start my mining journey and I would really appreciate your help. I live in the countryside in the UK (near Ripponden) where around here there are only 5 hotspots about 1.6-2.4km away from me. There are not a lot of houses in the village and there are mostly fields and hills. I was thinking of my putting the antenna at the top of the house (outside) through my attic room so roughly around 7-8m elevation. Could you please advise what would be the best antenna for my use and whether you think there would be any decent rewards? Thank you in advance for your time

Nik - 3/21/2022​

Hi Terry, a 6 dBi from McGill should be fine if you can get it outside. Rock on!

Lach - 3/21/2022​

Hi Nik, Am looking to order a 3dBi antenna, is there any significant difference between say the ANT-NH900-OUT-WHITE and a standard fiberglass pole 3dBi (860-960MHz)? Cheers

Nik - 3/21/2022​

Performance-wise, yes. Earnings-wise, probably not huge. Really depends on where you're deploying. In an urban environment with lots of reflective surfaces a multi-polarized antenna can make a big difference. In suburban and rural environments it may not make as big of a difference.

JimmyWireless - 3/24/2022​

I have a two way splitter, go with one Omni and one directional?

John - 3/28/2022​

I live at a condo and unlikely to be able to get my miner outside on the roof. Area around is fairly flat with a few hills, suburban. My options are outside, 2nd floor balcony or inside 3rd floor window, there's a tree about 20-30feet in front of the window. Balcony is also near said tree and would also be somewhat blocked by the neighbor 15 feet away. Trying to figure out which of those is best. Considering rak vs higher DBI hntantenna, or if I can ever find a multipolarized 8dbi.

Hamazz - 3/29/2022​

Nik, Love your hard work and support to the community. I got a bit of confusion on best setup, Lower vs higher Dbi, thinking of going higher gain directional tilted down slightly. I currently got a 5.8Dbi omni antenna at a height of 12m off the ground, 75m up a hill, 87m total, looking onto the city with flat topology. There is nothing behind me, thinking of going for a 8dbi directional antenna tilted to focus on the city below, as there is nothing behind except mountains. Due to some tall buildings lower down the hill, part of the signal gets blocked im thinking as the witnesses have dropped from 45 odd to 13 recently. and i know there are at least 70 plus hotspots in the vicinity. Any advice

Nik - 3/29/2022​

Hi Hamazz, I'd probably leave the setup you have, although you're welcome to experiment. Did witnesses drop after you changed antennas, or was there nothing on your end that you did?

John - 3/29/2022​

Hi NIk, Any thoughts on mine above about the 2nd or 3rd floor condo / what antenna to use?

John - 3/30/2022​

Hi Nik, Any recommendations for my placement/antenna? (The one above with the 2nd floor balcony and 3rd floor window)

Hamazz - 3/30/2022​

Nik Did not change the antenna yet, i think changes in the network and OTA firmware upgrade could be the reason for reduced witnesses. I also got a 3dbi Mcgill Omni which i have not used yet, was trying to decide between going for that or a directional, as there will be no hotspots behind me, so half the signal going out by the omni will not achieve anything, focusing the Dbi on just the forward facing would result in more witnesses?

Shanon - 3/30/2022​

Nik, Would fitting a cavity filter to a 6Dbi omni antenna improve the signal quality and cut out the noise of the other frequencies resulting in better rewards?

Pete - 3/30/2022​

Great article! Thank you so much. Once thing is unclear for me. I understand the higher the dbi the more laser beam, does that mean that higher dbi are NOT omni-directional? Do I need to rotate my antenna 20 degrees at a time for a week to see if my results will improve?

Nik - 3/30/2022​

The whole laser beam idea is a little over exaggerated. Higher dBi will focus your signal more, but it's typically not enough to really worry about. In general, it squashes it from the top and bottom, just like if you pushed on a balloon from the top and bottom. No need to rotate.

Nik - 3/30/2022​

Hi John, I'd just try both for 10 days each. There's no clear/definite answer without gathering data.

Nik - 3/30/2022​

You *might* see better results with a directional antenna, but unless there's anything blocking your current signal path you probably won't notice a difference.

Nik - 3/30/2022​

Only if there's current high interference from other radio signals; if you're on a cell tower or near a cell site.

ken - 3/30/2022​

Hi, Is there a difference between the McGill 6or 8 DBI and one you get from Amazon?

Nik - 3/30/2022​

There certainly can be. McGill tunes & tests theirs, so you know what you're getting. The Amazon ones can sometimes be smoking hot deals and sometimes be...smoking hot piles of garbage.

elize - 3/31/2022​

Great advice

Pete Kepler - 4/3/2022​

What do you think is better; antenna in an attic at 35 feet AGL or outside 15 feet on the top of a back porch?

Nik - 4/3/2022​

Hi Pete, you'll have to test that. I'd start with the 35' AGL option.

Mr. Rado - 4/8/2022​

I have 10 miners and use rfareas magnetic field antennas. the best for me. from the center of my town (Sofia) I have links up to 40 km. and there are very many interferencies near the antennas. good result for me.

Sebastian - 4/16/2022​

Hi Nik I live in Hornsby, Australia, my house is surrounded by hills, mountains(lots of trees), only 5% of surround area lower than my house. I mean my house is located under valley. I recently bought HNTenna and installed to replace normal 3dbi antenna(before 6dbi) but it looks very similar performance so far. Do you recommend any other antenna? or HNTenna is better than other? in my house conditions.

Nik - 4/16/2022​

Hi Sebastian; no antenna will blast through earth. Not much you can do in the bottom of a valley. See if you can find a better location for it.

Yoann - 4/16/2022​

Nik, Thank you so much for your hard work and support to the community, I'm looking for the SenseCAP M1 hotspot EU868 I'm in France, it work on other frequency and I'm a bit confused about the best setup to choose in my case, I'm in a small building at the first floor so not so high, other buildings are higher the building is located around a circle place with other buildings around the circle and some trees in the middle of the circle place there is two streets crossing each other with car traffic and a subway station underneath In the back of the building it is enclosed space with other buildings Also there is already 2 hotspot already visible on the map around about 150 meters (500 feet) away each - should i use the 2.8 dBi because of the round circle space at short distance ? - or the 5.8 dBi to go through the few threes and many cars ? - or the 8 dBi to go through all buildings through the place ? Thank you in advance for your time,

Nik - 4/16/2022​

Hi Yoann, 5.8 will will probably be fine for ya. Rock on!

5 Plug & Play Income Ideas 2022 | Crypto Gem Tokens - 4/17/2022​

[…] antennas article: https://gristleking.com/antennas-for-helium/ Helium placement article: […]

Alan - 4/18/2022​

Good morning, I have a 9dbi mcgill antenna on the roof at 20 meters height + or - I leave a hospot link but it gives me invalids in several hospots at 30km... https://explorer.helium.com/hotspots/112gw67DtWkv9oK6kGi3EX2LnKZPAU4D5AeYR1EtF8P42sfamUsW help please simulation , Would a 6dbi mcgill one be better?

Nik - 4/19/2022​

I'd look at how many invalids vs valids you're getting, and which are high and low value. Does that make sense?

Richard S. - 4/21/2022​

Nik, you are a great help to the community, much appreciated. I've spent a considerable amount of time trying to find a straight answer to this, but apologize if you've addressed it before. Currently, What happens if you don't update your aftermarket antenna specs on the Helium app? Will it affect the performance on the antenna if the info is not updated correctly to reflect proper DBis? Would the update be needed for each antenna/gain option to actually reap the benefits? As a rule how long would you run each gain option as a test to have an appropriate data sources to pick a winner? Then once you pick a winner update the specs on the Helium app? Cheers Richard

Nik - 4/21/2022​

It'll decrease signal strength if you assert a gain that puts you over the legal limit. More over here. 7 day minimum to get good numbers. Check the YouTube interview with Matthew Patrick for more on collecting good stats for Helium related decisions.

The Crawfords - 4/25/2022​

Hey Nik, I live out in the country with hills and trees, my nearest fellow hotspot is over a mile away. s it still worth it to set up a hot spot? Gunny

Nik - 4/25/2022​

Hey Gunny, if you've got a clear line of sight to that other hotspot you're likely to connect with it. LoRa can easily do a mile. Ideally you'd want a few other hotspots AND have a use in mind for the coverage Helium provides.

Josh - 4/26/2022​

Hi Nik- I bought the Peoples Antenna based off your recommendation above. They charged my card but never received any order confirmation and they won’t return support emails. Have you found them to be a generally good company? Do you have a backup budget selection? Thanks for the great content!

BT - 4/26/2022​

Any suggestions to maximize my earnings Sensecap M1 with 5.4db antenna placed on the second floor in my house next to the window currently getting around 3$ worth of HNT If I buy a higher DB antenna my earning would increase? whats the best one ? saw filters? Amplifiers? Seeing many things online and getting confused as I dont want to spend too much so what would be my best options https://explorer.helium.com/hotspots/11ADQM15ioZM4KnQoTG7sUAfFe73mox61fdSpZmzUFQcFXKjxyy

Nik - 4/27/2022​

Higher gain antenna probably won't do as much as getting your antenna outside and up higher. :)

Nik - 4/27/2022​

Hi Josh, they're a generally good company, though growing fast and will have stuff like this slip through the cracks. I'd re-ping them on email one more time, and check through your spam for confirmation. McGill are also good antennas.

Georgi - 4/27/2022​

Hi. I want to get Senscap M1 with antenna but I don't know which antenna shoud i get... This is my location https://explorer.helium.com/hotspots/hex/881ec152b7fffff Behind me It is suburb area with 1/2 houses everywhere and in front of me it is pretty much wooded area. What antenna shoud i get 5.8 , 8 , 10 . Which one should be the best in my case?

Nik - 4/27/2022​

Hi Georgi, I think you'd be fine with a McGill 6 or maybe higher. Remember, it's more a factor of how high you get your antenna and how much line of sight it has to other antennas than it is which antenna you buy.

Georgi - 4/27/2022​

I would probably put it on 10 meters (+- 1-2 meters). I don't know which one should I choose. I would really appreciate it if you tell me which one in particular is the best. This is a reply to your comment APRIL 27, 2022 AT 7:38 AM. Thank you in advance, Georgi

Nik - 4/27/2022​

Hi Gerogi, click this link to go to the McGill 6 dBi, which should be fine for you. Remember, the antenna doesn't matter as much as the elevation.

Georgi - 4/28/2022​

The elevation in my city is around 390 meters. Will the 6 dbi antenna be the best choise for me?

Nik - 4/28/2022​

Hi Georgi, citywide elevation has very little to do with what antenna you should use. It's the specific elevation at the point of install, and how much clear line of sight (to other Hotspots) that gives you. The 6 dBi should be fine.

Moe - 5/3/2022​

Hi nik this my location and i want your advice which antenna you recommended to use https://explorer.helium.com/hotspots/11e9gtZYsxr1EE42SdipydLU6Ti3PJVXpdNRqAZv3W8XFRwBqgZ

ryan - 5/9/2022​

I just want to know where to get the equipment your using

Nik - 5/9/2022​

Anything in particular? McGill's got a wide range.

Jeff S. - 5/20/2022​

Hey Nick, quick question. My buddy says to purchase a ‘signal booster’ which attaches to the Miner (Bobcat 300 - in my case) to boost signal ex: FBP-915S. Not near any cell tower and antenna is high above the roof lines in a suburban neighborhood. My first thought is overkill and signal loose out of the gate. Should I consider this booster add-on or chalk it up as BS? Thanks for your time, Nik!

Nik - 5/20/2022​

I wouldn't worry about it, but only testing will tell. I haven't used a signal booster on any of my setups so far, and some of them are miles from the nearest Hotspot. All performing fine.

Rusty Ruch - 5/22/2022​

Is there info on here about how to get my Bobcat out of relay mode?

Nik - 5/22/2022​

Yep, go here. Light Hotspots should make this a thing of the past.

Allen - 5/24/2022​

how many km will the 5 dbi - 9 dbi antenna's reach in ideal location? what do they max out at?

Nik - 5/24/2022​

Oh, 200 km with clear line of sight is not unheard of, and that's for a 3 dBi antenna.

Lyubo - 6/1/2022​

Hey Nik, great job with the information above. You are a master at this and a fantastic member of the community. I recently got my Bobcat 300 and was wondering if it would be safe to put the stock antenna outdoors on the roof for example for better coverage. I really feel that it would improve my earnings as currently, I have it set up inside next to a window. Also, and sorry if you had already addressed this, but would the connection from a wi-fi signal (the signal is coming from an extremely stable 4G connection from a router) be much worse than ethernet? Thank you in advance and keep up the great content!

Nik - 6/1/2022​

Hi Lyubo, fine to set up the stock Bobcat antenna outside, I believe it's outdoor rated. Almost always better to get the antenna outside & up high if possible. As far as WiFi vs ethernet, I always figure out how to connect to ethernet cables as that avoids any issues with WiFi, but if WiFi is your only option that's fine.

hangman131st - 7/5/2022​

looking to getting into mining is a 15dbi over kill looked online and seen one that is compatible with a bobcat 300, I live in an area that is mostly flat and lots of trees. I would like to get as much range as I can or is there a limit on what I can use. I live in Michigan

Nik - 7/5/2022​

Hi Hangman, yes, 15 dBi is overkill. You'll probably be best served with a 9 dBi, just get it up as high as you possibly can. Location is far more important than antenna (or elevation, for that matter).

Martin - 7/12/2022​

Hi Nik.I hope you can help with this. I live in Gillingham dorset in UK at altitude 70m.there are a few hotspots in my town but they all seem to be inactive. in town 4 miles away from me there are hotspots which are working fine but the town is at altitude 200-220m, there is a chance to connect with them but what antenna should I buy? 6dbi, 6.5dbi or even bigger ?I would say my town is between the hills. second issue is placement of hotspot. In attic is usually 33C. is that too hot for miner?i can place it on second floor of my house but will have to run a 5m cable. what would be the best? hope you can help. regards

Nik - 7/12/2022​

Hi Martin, No antenna will blast through hills. There's a chance the signal will bounce off something and get to the far side, but that's unreliable. In general, 6-9 dBi is going to be your range, and anything in there should work well. The best place for an antenna is up high, the best place for the miner is usually somewhere in a temp range humans can tolerate. Specific miners have specific temp parameters, double check yours. I'd run the 5m of cable to keep the antenna high and the miner out of the heat.

bonusik - 7/12/2022​

hi. Thank you for your response. the stronger antenna, less beamwidth it has, for example 6,5dbi has 30degrees vertical, but 8.5dbi has only 10degree vertical. would that matter around hills?so can 6.5dbi reach higher over the hill then 8.5dbi?Am i understanding right? I am thinking about 6dbi but if 7 or 8dbi will work better then I will go for it. regards

Nik - 7/12/2022​

Don't worry so much about the "right" antenna. Location is far more important. Antennas don't really matter. Any decent brand from 6-9 dBi will do as well as anything else in the location you're describing.

Xavier - 7/17/2022​

Hello, We are having Milesight helium hotspot, model:UG65-868M-EA-H32. Please can you recommend the suitable antenna models for this hotspot to improve coverage and earnings. https://explorer.helium.com/hotspots/1121aRSBSxheung9eFVStXmcV3hsyjU6wcWYkhUNeVGBD8H1qPKh Thanks,

bonusik - 7/21/2022​

hi. Thank you for help. 6dbi antenna bought and instaled. I had 4dbi antenna for 2 days and then swapped on 6dbi 2 days ago but I can not see any difference in witnesses, rewards etc. is that normal?or should I wait a few more days? regards

Nik - 7/21/2022​

Pretty normal. Switching antennas typically doesn't do a ton to change things; location & elevation are what really matter. I'd wait a few more days to make sure. 7 day minimum for assessing, sometimes more depending on local density.

jeremy west - 11/18/2022​

i live 7 miles and have a 50 feet or so placement what dbi antenna should i get im so confused

Nik - 11/19/2022​

Hi Jeremy, don't worry too much about the dBi. It won't make a huge difference. If you need "buy this antenna" advice, I'd just pick up a Parley Labs 5.8.

2024 update: Utah’s crypto antenna mystery remains unsolved - Swap - 5/24/2024​

[…] the owner of the website/blog Gristle King – A Guide to DePIN, only known as ‘Nik,’ shared a photograph of what appears to be him standing next to an antenna for a Helium hotspot as he […]