Can I Get A Witness?
Having trouble understanding why your hotspot isn't getting a Witness? Are you seeing messages about being above or below the bounds of an RSSI metric? Let's dig in!
There is an UPDATE to this post over here. Feel free to read on, but the rest of this post talks about a system that is no longer being used by Helium (PoCv10). The charts below are no longer valid, but I'll leave 'em up for posterity.
We'll start with this, the infamous PoC V10 SNR limits graphic. This is NOT, by the way, the system Helium now uses, which is PoCv11. Still, it's useful to understand the concepts.
I'll explain the X and Y axis in a bit, but at first glace it's pretty basic.
Green = Good, Red (pink?) = Bad. Find the numbers reported for your specific Witness event, see where they intersect, and you'll know why you have an Invalid witness. Yes, yes, yes, if you're a "radio head" you instantly see something wrong, but for now let's keep it simple.
We'll go through two examples; 1 invalid, and 1 valid. Here's an invalid witness.
Three things are listed:
- The distance in meters. This is used to calculate FSPL, or Free Space Path Loss. More on that in a sec.
- The signal strength in dBm (RSSI)
- The level of signal above the noise floor, in dB. (SNR)
Here's how that witness charts out:
With a high SNR (anything above 0 is high for Helium), at only 914 meters this signal is basically too good for the distance.
Ok, so what does it look like if the witness is valid?
We're looking at the same three things, but now we're at about twice the distance, and if you remember your dB strength rules (every 3 doubles or halves), about a quarter of the SNR.
Easy enough to read a chart, right? But what does it mean, and how can you get more valid witnesses?
We'll start by defining two things first: RSSI and SNR.
RSSI = Received Signal Strength Indicator. In very simple terms, RSSI measures the strength of the radio signal you're receiving.
In RSSI measurements, the larger the negative number, the weaker the signal. -130 is weaker than -100. In general, in the land of Helium, you want your RSSI to be between -82 and -134.
SNR = Signal to Noise Ratio. This is a measure of the quality of a signal compared to the background radio "noise". It's expressed in terms of dB (decibels), and the bigger the number, the better. Except when it's not.
Wait, a signal can be too good? Yep.
When Helium started (and basically, up until the present, August 2021), Helium had a problem: They were selling radio devices. Why is that a problem? This'll get more complicated before it gets simple, so buckle up and pay attention.
Everyone (in the US, and in most countries) selling a radio device has to have it certified by some national body. In the US, that body is the FCC. One of the things they check during certification is that your device doesn't break any emission-strength rules (technically EIRP, more on that here.)
Helium is required to stay within the limits of the rules. To do that, they used a low gain antenna (1.8 dBi gain) and a reasonable amount of energy output (-27 dBm). That put them at -28.8 dBi for max EIRP, well within the limits for the US, which is a max EIRP of -36 dBi.
The FCC also requires a manufacturer to build units that "prevent" the consumer from changing the antenna. Helium accomplished this by using RP-SMA connections. Yep, that counts as prevention. It's an outdated system, for sure.
An additional measure taken to ensure there was no encouragement to "improve" your antenna (and even they acknowledge it isn't a great one) is to set fairly strict and sometimes unreasonable rules regarding what a received radio signal should be in terms of the signal strength and quality.
This is accomplished in part by measuring ALL antennas (even your high gain fancy wazoo antennas) AS IF THEY WERE THE HELIUM STOCK ANTENNA.
No, that doesn't make sense. Yes, it was reasonable at the time. Yes, it will be changed.
How did Helium come up with those rules, and why? I'll start with the Why: To stop cheaters, also known as "gamers" because they game the system without providing any actual benefit.
Cheaters used to be able to just plug in a bunch of hotspots stacked on top of each other. Those hotspots would witness each other from inches away while reporting falsely asserted locations that made them seem to be much further apart. It appeared they were providing great coverage. So they earned. Massively earned.
One of the most egregious examples happened in a little town called Modesto, in California. At the peak of the cheating, in late summer 2020, a group of hotspots (probably in a closet, and not even in Modesto) were earning thousands of HNT per day. Yes, per day.
Helium has since worked to combat gaming in more and more nuanced ways, but the way they approached Modesto was with a giant radio-signal measuring hammer: The RSSI/SNR chart. This was created by a Helium employee who analyzed almost half a million PoC receipts and looked for outlier results.
He was approaching this in classic Silicon Valley fashion: Look at the actual dataset, don't rely on "old" thought, and figure out a new way to do a better job. Admirable, but it turned out to penalize not only egregious gamers, but many of the rest of us who just wanted to do an above average job.
The Modesto cluster was gutted, but the RSSI/SNR chart stayed in place. Other changes (HIP 15 & 17) entered into the system and incentivized spreading out and being rewarded for providing better and better coverage, but the RSSI/SNR chart stayed.
It wasn't because the Helium team was ignoring it. They had much a bigger challenge to surmount: Getting Validators online so the blockchain could stop suffocating itself. With that mission-critical task accomplished, they can now (summer/late summer 2021) turn to making sure the blockchain improves in accurately rewarding superb coverage.
Which brings us, almost, to today, sometime in August of 2021. With PoCv11 (Proof of Coverage Version 11) on the horizon, we're about to take a strong step in the direction of rewarding strong & clear signal coverage over short and long distances.
As you're seeing in the app, Helium is offering you the chance to enter your antenna gain and elevation. This will help them more accurately assess whether or not your witnesses are valid. As of today (Aug 4th, 2021), those two metrics don't actually make a difference for you, the hotspot owner, but...they will.
In the future, when PoCv11 comes online, the details you enter will be applied to your witness receipts. In order to combat gaming (essentially to stop everyone from just saying they have a 50 dBi gain antenna so all of their witnesses are good), Helium will simultaneously apply your gain AND decrease your transmit strength. That's fair, by the way, and you should want that to happen.
I know, I know. Nobody likes decreased strength. Trust me on this one: LoRa already gives you TONS of range. Your goal is not long range, it's increased earnings, and earnings come from valid witness receipts.
What will that look like? Full details over here, but for those of you who aren't deep into radio geekery, the big picture is that Helium will drop SNR and just use RSSI and distance. Here's a proposed chart. Meters on the Y axis, RSSI on the X axis.
Ok, so you've got three lines on there: Red, Yellow, Green. The lines represent the current cutoff (Red) for a valid witness as well as proposed future cutoffs (Yellow and Green).
You're also seeing a bunch of blue dots. Those blue dots represent reported witness metrics of RSSI at some distance. The green line is the most restrictive, but is based on actual values of RSSI at some given distance, which is far more accurate than the current RSSI/SNR curve.
To keep it simple, this means that in the future, when PoCv11 replaces the current version, a hotspot using a non-stock antenna will not be penalized for it. Whether the yellow, or green, or some other line is used is still up for debate.
We'll wrap this up with one of the most important takeaways: What antenna will help you stay within the proposed limits? Easy: It's the LOWEST gain antenna you can use. See how the curves all shoot up at a fairly defined RSSI? That's the key. If your RSSI is even a few points "to the left", you can be on the wrong side of the line.
This helps explain why in many cases, when you get that fancy super high gain antenna, your valid witnesses disappear. So what antenna should you buy?
My recommendation is still the HNTenna, but any of the low gain (4 or less) antennas in your countries frequency, from a wide variety of sources like McGill, Parley Labs, L-com, or Laird will be fine.
If you're willing to explore your inner geek and you like to tinker, take a look at attenuators. They'll attenuate (or weaken) the signal (both tx & rx), but they'll also increase the SNR, so experiment cautiously. Here are a few options:
Expensive (~$400) and unnecessary, but hey, if you want a great unit - Fairview 0-11 dB Step Attenuator
Cheaper ($25), less precise without extra measuring equipment - ATM RF Variable Attenuator AF033-10 DC-1000 MHz 50 Ohm
An attenuator decreases your signal strength both ways. They're not a great long term option. The best option is to use a low gain antenna and get it up high in the right location. If you see that the Nearson 9 or RAK 8 that you bought when you were in "Bigger is better" mode gets more valid witnesses once you've taken a little sauce out of it, well, you'll have some useful data points (that I'd love to hear about.)
Want to go deeper? Consider hiring me to help you out; I love helping people crush with Helium.
Happy Witnessing!
**This post was written with technical oversight from @jerm on Discord. He is an absolute wizard with this. All righteous accuracy is his, any errors are mine. -Nik@GKI
Archived Comments
Mer Alcon - 8/7/2021
Its nice to read article like this both for non technical and technical people. Looking forward to it for some other articles especially in mining and antenna placement, etc...
Nik - 8/8/2021
Thanks Mer, check through the rest of the site, I've got a few on antennas. Start here.
Peter - 8/11/2021
Thanks Nik, I'm in a spot with only 3 hotspots and I keep getting an invalid witness to the closest one (900 meters away) due to high SNR. Since I can't find out who the owner is to work out the problem, should I just try downsizing my antenna? I'm on a 5.8 db on a residential roof, the hot spot in question is reported to be an 8db. This is very frustrating but your article helps put it into perspective.
Nik - 8/11/2021
Hi Peter, you could try swapping out for the stock antenna to see if that works, or you can add an attenuator to your antenna and see what that changes. Glad the article helped make sense of why this is happening.
Peter - 8/11/2021
Thanks Nik! Learning a lot from your blog!
Cristi - 8/15/2021
Hi Nik! Could you please provide some advice, my 2 bobcats since last 5 days suddey have NO witnesses. I have had lots of witnesses and earning for almost 2 months since I installed them, i am NOT relayed, always online and fully synced, have always used only the stock 4dbi antenna. Nothing changed to my internet connection or ISP, so it is really confusing why suddenly my beacons get 0 witnesses in BOTH of my 2 bobcats (2 different locations). I read a lot on this site and many other sitea and I couldnt find a solution? Thanks!
Nik - 8/15/2021
Hi Cristi, hmm, I'd start by checking the antennas, although if they both stopped witnessing at the same time that is confusing.
SenseCAP M1 Helium Miner Setup – Tea and Tech Time - 8/17/2021
[…] Can I Get A Witness? […]
GP-Colorado - 8/22/2021
Excellent explanation; thank you. A couple of questions came to me as I read it. Perhaps you might clarify for me. Last year, when coverage was sparce, I installed a 9dBi Nearson about 7 feet above the peak of my roof, intending to provide coverage over a wide area. I also placed some yagis aimed towards (then) under populated territories. Will these configurations put me at a disadvantage, under PoCv11, unless I put attenuators into the feed lines? Might it become advantageous to use lossy inexpensive cable rather than LMR-400, as a natural attenuator , when installing directional / high-gain antennas, or mounting any antennas at substantial elevation?
Nik - 8/23/2021
Hey GP, good question. I'd say the 9 dBi probably puts you close to the invalid edge anyway, and the yagis almost always push you over (depending on gain, of course). Did you successfully get all those antennas linked to one miner and working? You're probably better off installing a high quality low gain antenna with short antenna cable rather than fiddling with attenuation through cable loss.
What's The Best Antenna For Your Helium Hotspot? - Gristle King - A Guide to Helium - 9/5/2021
[…] the power/signal rules Helium uses to help combat spoofing. When you violate those rules, you get invalid witnesses. Invalid witnesses = […]
George - 9/10/2021
Hello , very informative article . I have a network of 10 miners with very clear LOS between them and distances between 400m and 5 km . I keep coming across the issue of invalid witnesses where my rssi is at -110 to -120 ans SNR is 2-8 positive . I am only using 4 dbi stock antennas. This leads me to believe i have to take action to reduce my signal strength ? Would this be a valid approach ?
Nik - 9/10/2021
Hi George, looks like the SNR is the culprit. You could decrease signal strength with attenuators (professional or otherwise) or just wait 'til PoCv11 comes out, which *should* be in the next week or so.
Winning At Helium: The Right Way To Get Started - Gristle King - A Guide to Helium - 9/10/2021
[…] Nope. I wrote about that in Can I Get A Witness? […]
Damian - 9/12/2021
Hello - I'm a newbie to electronics and Helium in general and had a question regarding attenuators. My witnesses from my neighbor hexagons are being mentioned as invalid based on that chart because are signals are too strong since I don't live in an area with large buildings or trees. I think an attenuator might help me get more of these witnesses based on what you wrote above. Can I buy any generic attenuator to reduce the db levels by 1 or 2? Do I need a specially made one that will fit the helium miner? Do i just put it on my miner right before my antenna? I don't want to purchase the wrong item but I'm willing to take a $10 bet to increase my hotspots connections with my neighbors. Amazon has quite a few but I just wanted to know if I needed anything else special. Im currently thinking my normal Sensecap Miner with an attenuator for just 1 or 2 db and then the normal antenna should be enough to solve my problem.
Nik - 9/13/2021
Hi Damian, Sure, you can try an attenuator, look for one with the right connections & an impedance of 50 ohms. Are you on the stock antenna? If not, try using that. One thing to keep in mind is that while an attenuator will dampen the signal, it'll also increase the SNR, which will increase the likelihood of an invalid witness. I'd approach this as a fun experiment rather than a guaranteed earning increase. : ) The other (cheap & fast, but not beautiful or really measurable) is to use metal screens around your antenna, or just put your antenna inside.
Damian - 9/13/2021
Thanks for the speedy response, Nik. I ordered a couple attenuators to try out from Amazon, hopefully they fit the miner. Honestly I'm not sure what the "right connections" are - I literally know little to nothing about electronics. I'm assuming these are all one size fits all. My problem isn't the RSSI measure but the SNR measure. My neighbors hex have low enough RSSIs (-90s) but the SNR is still too strong (10+) . I was hoping the attenuator would reduce the SNR just by 1-3 DB and make them valid witnesses. Am I interpreting this wrong? Interestingly enough I AM using the stock antenna haha. I think my neighbor hexes might have a stronger antenna though as they are connecting to a ton of other nodes based on their activity history. I witness them a lot in my activity each day, but its always just barely invalidated based on the chart for RSSI vs SNR. Is there anything I can use to decrease the SNR just a tad? I think the RSSI is fine to be honest, but SNR is too good as you mention in your article. Maybe this problem disappears after the update where strong antennas arent penalized by the algo..
Nik - 9/13/2021
Hi Damian, agree re. SNR being your problem, and the attenuators will probably not help that, although they may get the RSSI where you want/need it to be. Hell, they might help. RF is weird. PoCv11 should solve this for ya. :)
Ryan - 9/14/2021
Thanks for all the hints and tips man! Your doing the lords work for sure!
Chad - 9/15/2021
Thanks for all these details Nik. I was excited to upgrade my stock Bobcat 4dbi antenna to an 8dbi roof mounted antenna, but upon installing it this last week, I began getting quite a few of these invalid witnesses which has been really frustrating. Your post and explanation really helped. Have you seen any official target date for release of PoCv11? How will we know when it is officially released? I'm anxious to see if it fixes these problems, or if I need to take more drastic measures of moving the antenna into the attic or start exploring attenuator options. Thanks again for your help.
Nik - 9/15/2021
Hi Chad, as of Sept 15th 2021 it *looks like* PocV11 will be live within a week or so. Helium has just released the update over the air that enables it, so once they're satisfied that it's working they'll hit the switch and we'll be on the new system.
Ndu - 9/16/2021
Hi Nik, How might PoCv11 affect higher dbi antennas in the 5+ dbi ranges? Did I read you correctly when you said that the transmit power of the higher dbi antennas would be significantly reduced with v11? I read on Reddit that v11 will affect antennas that are above 1.2dbi. That's strange especially considering that some OEMs even supply 4dbi antennas.
Ndu - 9/16/2021
I guess the question I meant to ask was, "Would it be a waste of money to spend an extra $150 buying and setting up a 9dbi antenna if your transmit scale is 0.56, and you are trying to reach hotspots with healthy transmit scales of 1.0?" When v11 gets fully implemented, would a 9dbi antenna go only as far as a 1.2dbi or 3dbi antenna?
Nik - 9/16/2021
Hi Ndu, tx power will be reduced by the gain of the antenna. So a 9 dBi gain antenna will get a 9 dB reduction in power.
Nik - 9/16/2021
Yes, that would be a waste of money. Don't use gain for extra *range*, use gain to punch through light obstacles (rows of trees, from inside a building to outside, etc.)
Ndu - 9/17/2021
I see, thanks. They claim to have algorithms to measure antenna power and determine location through triangulation. Does that mean that my 6.8dBi antenna (entered as a 5.8dBi in the app) would be found out and treated as a 6.8dBi antenna?
Ndu - 9/17/2021
Considering that outdoor antennas have cable and connector losses that aren’t evident in directly connected antennas, might it make sense to account for those losses in the app data by entering an actual 5.8dBi antenna as an 6.8dBi - accounting for 1.0 in losses?
Nik - 9/17/2021
Yep, over time the calculations will get more and more accurate.
Nik - 9/17/2021
Hi Ndu, maybe. I don't think a 1 dBi difference will be huge, but it might make the occasional difference.
SporadicE - 9/17/2021
The People's Network should be re-named "The Urban and Suburban People's Network" if POCv11 is turned on. Distance has a real effect on RSSI and SNR, for that matter. If they are attempting to fix the "invalid data" problem the market or really the miners who repeatedly are invalid will learn to change their antennas so that they get paid. If you don't get paid for your product (valid contact) then you'll change your product so you will be valid. Rural miners will be hurt the most since their ability to contact the more densely hexes will be impacted. I do not understand how this will help populate the more sparsely inhabited areas. It appears the talk about spreading out the density of the miners was just talk as POCv11 as written will discourage rural participation. If your system has < -37 dB then you should be good to go without someone cutting your TX power. That is legal. The miner operator should be the one to decide if he/she wants to be paid by arranging their system for their area to produce valid contacts.
Nik - 9/17/2021
Possibly, although I don't think PocV11 is the only thing Helium is doing to improve RF assessment of the network. I think we'll see strong incentives for coverage of highways and transportation corridors in the coming months. PoCv11 is just one step in the process.
Ndu - 9/17/2021
SporadicE, "If your system has < ?37 dB then you should be good to go without someone cutting your TX power." <- Was this referenced somewhere we can read? Would that number be 27dB for the miner and 10dB for the antenna?
Nik - 9/18/2021
I'm not seeing where it says that. 27 dBm for the miner and *9 dBi* for the antenna is US standard. Varies by country.
Ayjay - 9/18/2021
Looks like I came to the right place. I just upgraded from the stock Sensecap 2.6 dbi antenna to an 8 dbi because I'm a newbie and figured "this will make more HNT." I'm on the third floor of a house on a hill in suburbia, higher than most others around and have this giant 8 dbi next to a bedroom window. Suddenly after 2 days of not much improvement, there are lots of invalid witnesses in the last 3 hours. Seems like the smartest thing to do is just plug back in the 2.6 dbi? Obvious question? Or maybe stick with 8 dbi and move it to the ground level? That seems irrational though. Any thoughts would be appreciated, thanks
Nik - 9/18/2021
Hi Ayjay, try going back to stock, that should help with the invalid witnesses.
Damian - 9/19/2021
Nik, I got 5-6 attenuators to test out but none of them fit my miner. I have a senscap m1. Do you have any advice on which attenuators I should take a look at buying? Still in the scientific experiment phase so I don't mind doing the testing for the community on this one haha.
Brandon - 9/19/2021
What are the specs when using an attenuator, as in just make sure it is an RF and same ohms? I have never heard of this but need to knock my antenna down a few dbs
Nik - 9/19/2021
Hi Damian, when you say they don't "fit", does that mean that connectors aren't matching up? You can buy connector kits to solve that (if that's the case.)
Nik - 9/19/2021
Hi Brandon, 50 ohms should do it. Most of the time you're better off just buying the right antenna. Attenuators can be fun to muck around with, but they carry additional hurdles like increasing SNR, and you need to pay attention to the correct connectors.
radicale - 9/20/2021
I'm not sure why you suggest the use of attenuators. This would affect your RX capabilities, and as far as I know TX power will be adjusted by the hotspot to remain within both regional regulations and PoVv11 limits. Hence in reality all you should do is update your correct antenna dbi (minus cable loss), and you should be fine - even with a high dbi antenna.
Nik - 9/20/2021
That's a good point, thank you! Attenuators aren't the best option; the best option is to buy and use a low gain antenna up high in the right place. :) But...many people want to tinker, so I suggest the attenuators for the tinkerers.
Ndu - 9/20/2021
NIk, I take it that with PoCv11 in view, Hntenna would probably halt their work on the 3+ dBi antenna you mentioned in a different post?
Nik - 9/20/2021
When you say halt "their" work, who do you mean? HNTenna or Helium or someone else?
Ndu - 9/20/2021
I meant that Hntenna might not develop 5.8dBi or higher dBi antennas now that PoCv11 plans to penalize higher gain setups. You mentioned somewhere in an earlier post that Hnntenna was working on higher gain version of the their the Hnntenna.
Nik - 9/20/2021
Ok, that makes sense. Yeah, they may not bring out a higher gain.
Todd - 9/21/2021
Nik, you still feeling confident that the HNTenna 3 dbi are great indoor and outdoor options even with the forth-coming PoCv11? Do you know or have you tested the difference between their indoor and outdoor 3 dbis?
Nik - 9/22/2021
Hi Todd, yep, they'll be excellent for PoCv11. I haven't tested indoor vs outdoor in a head-to-head, but in talking to the HNTenna folks they've seen both perform well, even seeing the indoor do well outdoors (just seal the connection point well.)
Damian - 9/24/2021
Nik - apologies for the late response, been busy with work. Yes, it seems the attenuators arent the right size for the SenseCap miners? They seem too large to attach every time I've tried. What type of connector should I be looking for?
Ayjay - 9/24/2021
Nik, thanks very much for taking the time to respond. I went back to the stock 2.6 antenna as you suggested instead of the 8db and invalid witnesses stopped. Nice! Thanks! I I was able to get the stock above my roof (using a super thin, long, and strong piece of fresh bamboo of all things attached to a nifty lightweight wood from out of a window:) It's up to a modest 0.8 HNT/day up from 0.3/day. I'm able to take in my contraption in seconds if there's a thunder storm so I'm kind of winging it right now. Fun stuff! There is one guy in my HEX that delivers me invalid witness from time to time, but I think I'm not going to worry about it. Maybe I'll take down the antenna about 5 feet. It's waaay up there. Also might be smart to get an actual outdoor antenna if I'm going to be leaving it outdoors through the winter haha - but I'm thinking 3db max :) Anyway cheers and thanks again for your invaluable blog!
Nik - 9/24/2021
No prob. Outdoor antenna sounds like a good plan; the HNTenna is excellent.
Nik - 9/24/2021
Probably an RP-SMA male, but check your connections to be sure.
Thomas - 9/29/2021
Hey Nik, I had a quick question, in my country the max dbm is 20 for the 868 band. What is the max transmit power for a Sensecap M1 EU868 hotspot - all I can find is "up to 26dbm". I have a 6dbi antenna and am running a 33 feet cable, would it be better to use LMR 195 (with a loss of 4dbi) or a LMR 400 cable (with a loss of 1.4dbi) to reduce the gain to an acceptable level? I am a bit confused as to how I will be impacted if my gain is too high as I don't have access to any low gain antennas here. Any help would be great! thanks so much
Nik - 9/29/2021
Hi Thomas, hmm, if it's an EU868 version it won't be pushing out 26 dBm; I think you're limited to 14 dBm for those. I'd use the LMR400 and just correctly input your calculated loss in the Helium app.
James - 9/29/2021
Hey Nik, Is there an effective way you can degrade the SNR value. In my neighborhood, a new miner has popped up and I'm getting invalid witnesses from them. I feel if i can lower the SNR value of the received signal just slightly, I'll be able to get a valid witness from them. I don't want to have to move my miner or anything, just looking for a way to lower the SNR a few points. Thoughts?
Nik - 9/29/2021
Hi James, there are technical ways you can degrade signal strength/quality, but you're best off focusing on witnessing lots of miners and not worrying about 1 close by. Helium is all about providing WUPU coverage; one nearby miner won't make any difference to that.
Chris willett - 10/4/2021
My rssi when I did discovery was -16. How do I dummy my signal strength On the other end I am getting too much noise -10 to -13 is this because of my strong signal strength picking everything up
Nik - 10/4/2021
Hi Chris, what antenna do you have, and what antenna do the hotspots on the other end have? I'd start with a low gain or stock antenna.
Adam Johnson - 10/6/2021
Hi Nik, thanks for the input as always! I keep checking out the HNTenna and am ready to pull the trigger .. but, even with my stock 2.6 db I'm getting Invalid Witnesses that are between 850m - 450m because for those the SNR is around 10 db. Basically anyone in the same Hex usually is invalid. I seem to blow them away probably because I have great placement way up over the roof. Before tinkering anymore - I wonder if I should wait to see how the pocv11 update affects this. Do you think the pocv11 update might solve the overblown SNR for close hotspots and cure the Invalid Witnesses? Thanks! (on a side note I'm stoked as my 2nd Sensecap comes today to be set up at my folks house)
Nik - 10/6/2021
Hi Adam, the PoCv11 update will solve the SNR issues because it won't rely on SNR. :) You could hold off on buying the HNTenna if you want. For close witnesses with high gain antennas, there's not much you can do.
Jasper van Berkel - 10/11/2021
Goodmorning, afternoon or evening Nik, Thanks for the article; it's pretty difficult to find clear info on this, especially for non savvy tech boys and girls like myself. I'll have to read through it a few extra times though to really understand all of it ;-) There are two situations I hope you can help me out with, and can provide me and other readers with some advice. I've got one SenseCap M1 in the middle of Amsterdam; the most miner-occupied hexagon/area's of The Netherlands probably, and set it up with a 6.5 dBi antenna (LMR400 5 meters) and 20 meters high up. I'm wondering if this is the right set up, or that I should go for let's say a 3 dBi antenne instead? On the other hand I have a Nebra miner at home (10dBi / 10 meters up / LMR400 5 meters) and this is in a rural area; I have the only miner in the nearby area. How would you set up this location, as this is a exact opposite situation as I have in Amsterdam? Am I good or should I probably change the antenna? Thanks in advance! Kind regards, Jasper
Nik - 10/11/2021
Hi Jasper, both of those sound reasonable, although the 10 dBi is definitely on the high end of things. Your earnings are far more affected by your location than your antenna setup. In both cases I'd opt for a lower gain antenna, but it probably won't make a big difference.
Jonathan - 10/14/2021
I rotated between a 1.2DBI Stock Sensecap antenna, 5.8dbi aftermarket and 8dbi aftermarket antenna and it really does not impact much in my area of NYC. 1.2dbi had 571 hotspots responded during discovery mode - Earnings were about .23 avg/day first 14 days 5.8 dbi had 645 hotspots responded during discovery mode - Earnings were about .21avg/day last 14 days 8dbi had 596 hotspots responded during discovery mode - Earnings were .18avg/day mid 14 days I know there are so many variables that impact earnings. Rollouts, updates, added hotspots, etc but it doesn't seem like it matters what type of antenna is being used where I am living in the heart of NYC. There are 50 hotspots in my Hex and I have a transmit score of .01. I did the same exercise in another Hex with a .2 transmit score and same results.. The antenna changes are sub-optimal. Location and positioning is key like NIK has been saying.. I do have one in a suburban area where it is on a pretty big Lake. Others around me have been getting 15-20 HNT per month where I am earning 7.5 per month. I have rotated between different antenna but not too successful. Not sure on that one.
Nik - 10/15/2021
Hi Jonathan, That sounds about right. NYC is pretty much the worst place to deploy a hotspot; just way too many of 'em there already. A main key to earnings is line of sight to other un-scaled hotspots.
Atanas - 10/19/2021
Hi Nik! I just put an 6.5dbi Mikrotik antenna on my roof, wired with 12m rg58 cable to the Bobcat miner. My question is - after the cable loss, is the antenna working like 1.5 low dbi with big angle of spreading or still spread like 30 degrees ,but low range. I'm asking, because in the discovery mode i catch just 20% of the hotspots compared with stock 4dbi indoor antenna. If you have any suggestions it will be great. This blog is one of the most useful ones , that i find out ! Best regards!
Nik - 10/19/2021
Hi Atanas, an antenna will radiate out at the same pattern no matter how much loss you have, just with different levels of power/range. While not totally technically accurate, that's close enough to be useful. :)
Johnny - 10/25/2021
I’m glad I found this article. There’s some good info. But I am still lost a little bit. I ran discover mode and rssi is -22 with SNR of .1199999999. No negative. I get random witnesses maybe once a day to my beacon from an explorer 1.5km away and one from 8km away. But there is a cluster of 7 miners jusy 2.0-2.5Km below me (active ones) but I can’t reach them. I have a stock antenna bobcat that I put by the window upstairs. I got some advice to put it next to a. Wall instead. But I was curious to try a new antenna weather inside. Or even try an outside antenna on the roof. I live in a culdesac with some pine trees around. Flat lands. Sorry for the essay. Been 3 weeks already and I’m tired of only gaining so little. But other people are getting more. Thx !!
Nik - 10/25/2021
Get your antenna higher and outside, and run a Line of Sight check on that cluster to the south.
Johnny - 10/26/2021
Thank you Nik do you have any recommendation of what antenna/combo to run. I was thinking do the rak wireless with an LmR 400 cable I gotta run about 20-25 FT. Unless I can use the stock bobcat one. But I don’t think it’s built for outdoors ! And if you can recommend a reputable site. Thx !! For the swift response
Nik - 10/26/2021
For 20-25' you can use an HNTenna if you're US based. If in Europe you might want to get lower loss cable or a higher gain antenna. Just did an interview with Ben @ MP Antenna (makers of the HNTenna), here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WeGozZyLlIg&t=5s
Johnny - 10/27/2021
I saw those antenna! I was thinking of trying the indoor one before hand but il try the outdoor one when I get in stock. The 20-25 feet was gonna be the length of the wire ran! Some people say lmr-400 some people say the other one I forgot which one. How long have you been mining ?
Nik - 10/27/2021
Hi Johnny, right on. I've been mining since Sept 2020. You can compare loss over length on the chart here.
Pierre - 10/29/2021
Hi Nik, Keep getting those witness_rssi_below_lower_bound since yesterday. I installed a 6dbi antenna, with 25ft LMR 400, my antena is on my roof, around 18ft high. Distance ~940 m RSSI -95 dBm SNR 10.2 dB Frequency 903.9 MHz If I understood correctly, my SNR is hurting at 10.2 dB and I would have to lower my transmission power : ( When my antenna was inside (the 6 dbi), I had no invalids at all. I started mining 4 days ago, was all excited to put my antenna outside and high, but now I get invalids. Question: Do you think putting my antenna in my attic would help lower the signal? Asking before doing this because it involves some work lol. Thanks
Nik - 10/29/2021
Hi Pierre, yep, putting your antenna inside your attic will help lower the signal. When PoCv11 starts up, you may end up moving the antenna back up on the roof as the transmission power will be reduced according to the antenna gain you state on the app.
Pierre - 10/29/2021
Thanks Nik much appreciated! Do you know how long it takes to appear unrelayed? Changed to LAN yesterday and I think my setup is ok!? "ports": { "44158": "open" }, "p2p\_status": \[ "+---------+-------+", "| name |result |", "+---------+-------+", "|connected| yes |", "|dialable | yes |", "|nat\_type | none |", "| height |1075663|", "+---------+-------+", "listen\_addrs":\["/ip4/XX.XX.XX.XX/tcp/44158"\]
Nik - 10/29/2021
Usually takes a while for Explorer or the App to report, try Neil's Helium Status tool
Johnny - 10/29/2021
Thank you for all the direction and links ! It was very helpful NIK. I ordered 30feet of lmr cable to run from the top of my house to the miner inside my house. Looks like that’s the most promising from your guide . Hopefully it will reach past the couple pine trees I have outside. I’m aiming 2.5km-3.0km at least and maybe furtherwith the 3dbi dome one. Or do you think I may need the 6.0dbi rod looking one ? Thank you
Nik - 10/30/2021
You'll be fine going that distance with any antenna. Really depends on the local environment (what is blocking your line of sight to other antennas) and where you are. EU needs higher gain antennas because the radio output is so low.
Johnny - 10/30/2021
Okay that makes me feel super confident about the 3.0 hnteanna ! I have about 5-6 pine trees around my area. 2 next to my house unfortunately. But that’s why I’m gonna put it on my roof at about 25-30ft in elevation lol. Hopefully with the lower dbi antenna and the cable it will drop my high snr of 11.00. When I change the dbi on the helium app from my 4dbi stock bobcat antenna I put the antenna dbi subtracted by the loss in it Is that correct ?
Nik - 10/30/2021
Yep, that's what I'd do.
Johnny - 10/30/2021
Thank you I will give you updates on how things go ! Thank you very much for Helping out the community. Do you have a patreon or donation app I can donate to. I can’t afford paying the 2000 but I do appreciate you!
Nik - 10/31/2021
Don't sweat it dawg, happy to help out where I can. Thank you!
Dennis - 10/31/2021
Hi! I am in a big town and with 200miners all in town. Before 12days I reassert a hotspot a sensecap from my cousins house to a friends cafe at the center of the town at a cliff 250 meters high, that around are like 170hotspots (at a radius of 10 km) and I first Install a 6,5dbi Mikrotik with lmr 400 5meters long. But I didn’t saw any good signs..... (0,3-0,4 Per day and comparing with the 0,7-1 I had Privia in my cousins) Before 7days I installed a 5 dbi Alfa with a 3 meters lmr240. Also I didn’t see any special improvement. (0,2-0,3) Now again I am with the 6,5dbi mikrotik going like 0.4-0.45hnt I can send you if you want,the hotspots link and the google maps location. To help me... I believe it is a good location Can you please help me?? Also the internet latency is like300-500.. What to go a 3-4dbi Or An 8-9 dbi. As the main source of the earnings are from witnesses (receiving others when they transmitting) not from my hotspot sending beacon. So I want my antenna at that height to receive more witnesses.. (I am at the center at the higher place) Do you believe that a bigger dbi antenna (like 7,5-9) would be more sensitive in receiving or a 4dbi would be better. .... ??
JohnT - 11/1/2021
Nik. Thanks for all your great info on your blos. I have a 5.8dBi Nebra antenna on a pole that is about 10 ft above the roof line - approx. 11m. I am running 25 ft of LMR-600. Initially before complete install, I ran discovery mode and got responses across the lake (Lake Ontario). However, one we did the permanent install, I am getting like 1 witness and only witnessing on hotspot. Is it possible that I have the antenna too high? I have read and re-read your post on the different antenna power and I am starting to think the signal is just going over the tops of all surrounding hotspots. Is that a fair assessment?
Nik - 11/1/2021
Depends on the power output of your radio. US miners push out higher energy so we can use a lower dBi antenna. EU versions are much weaker, so they can benefit from a slightly higher gain. A 6-9 dBi up high seems to be the money-shot on the EU side of things. Let me know how it goes!
Nik - 11/1/2021
Hi John, you're probably fine. Unlikely the antenna is too high; even the 8 dBi signal hits the ground with a km or less from most reasonable elevation installments. Discovery is unreliable. Let the thing sit for a couple of days, it'll give you a much clearer signal of what's actually happening.
JohnT - 11/1/2021
Hi Nik. Thanks for your reply. The antenna install has been up for just over a week and its really not preformed any different. It is next to a HD TV antenna but above the TV antenna. Could this be causing interference? Additionally, there are not that many hotspots around me and I am wondering too if that is the issue. I am not a lone wolf but seems that way .. this is on near my location: https://explorer.helium.com/hotspots/11cvsfKtoh8CLW6Gf8CQoevvFuGocNgAEVgz56hSCgSzgHKjaj5
Nik - 11/1/2021
The issue is most likely not having enough hotspots relatively close. If you get way higher you'll probably start hitting the Toronto cluster. I bet the TV HD antenna has little to no impact.
Daniel - 11/7/2021
Hey Nik, I'm running a MNTD gold with with 10ft of 400 cable and a 5dbi antenna sitting at 24ft. It seemed to be doing better at first, almost 1HNT in 24hrs. I feel like it went down hill after I updated my antenna strength and hight. If you have any insight I'd appreciate it. Let me know how much $ for your help.
Nik - 11/7/2021
Give it a couple of days. Earnings can vary widely day to day. You can hire me here to go through a custom setup & consulting session with you.
Jeff - 11/8/2021
Nik, great article and information. A couple of questions. 1) My miner, an RAK with 2.3 dbi antenna, has been "operational" for almost a month and has earned a measly 0.35 HNT in that time. I know a lot depends on the hotspots around me, but this seems hopeless. 2) I tried a 12 dbi antenna and it got worse so I replaced that with the stock antenna. Would you suggest going to the 5.8 dbi antenna? I live in central Mississippi. No tall buildings, but lots of homes and trees. https://explorer.helium.com/hotspots/112vbfJ9nQkqgTSk8QinT2vka7LhoPJk31dryPftRnCt9NANna8z 3) Seems like my ability to challenge/send a beacon/ or witness is very small? Also, impressed that you actually answer all of these questions! Kudos to you.
Nik - 11/8/2021
Is your antenna higher than the surrounding obstacles (trees, houses, etc)? That should be where you put most of your efforts. A 5.8 will be fine if you feel the need to buy something, but if you can get the stock high you'll be fine. Mississippi is hard with all the trees.
Riccardo - 11/9/2021
Hello Nik, I read with interest this article and I compliment to you. It was really clear and straight to the point. I own a Nebra miner with a 5.8 dbi outdoor antenna. The antenna is installed on the rail of my balcony, and I live at 2nd floor of a small building (10 m above the ground). I live in a town with other buildings surroundings, but I am quite high above the ground so I get a pretty good line of sight on the rest of the hotspots near me. My question Is: why sometimes my hotspot can't witness a beacon sent by a near hotspot which I already witnessed in the past? Let's say I'm hotspot A. Hotspot B sends a beacon and hotspot A and hotspot C witness it. The next day hotspot B sends again a beacon, and hotspot C witness It, but not hotspot A. Why? I noticed this behaviour really often and I can't explain why. Thank you for your support, best regards. Riccardo
Nik - 11/9/2021
RF is weird; could be signals bouncing around, leaves moving from trees, changing antennas on the other end, etc.
Clark - 11/15/2021
Hi Nik Here is my result faithful-aqua-otter Packets Heard: 7 RSSI: -30 SNR: 11.199999809265137 After changing sense cap 2.8dbi (2m, 15 witness) to a 5.8dbi (4m, 0witness) antenna same location in attic. Ethernet cable plugged. I m getting no witness. Can you tell if the discovery mode result looks abnormal? Thanks a lot. A brand newbie in helium.
Nik - 11/15/2021
Just wait, dawg. Don't pay attention to Discovery, just watch your hotspot over the next few days. If it's getting power and it's connected via ethernet cable it'll sort itself out.
Tyler - 11/21/2021
First of all you're a champ for responding to all of these questions. Wish I had seen this article earlier. I've got a sense cap m1 coming in the mail. And an 8dbi antenna... I live in somewhat of a rural area with lots of tress. Did I make the wrong decision on antenna.. other hotpots are far and few between me by a few miles. Reading this makes me think I should have went with 5.8?? Maybe I'll just have to try both. Thanks
Nik - 11/22/2021
Hi Tyler, at the end of the day the only way to really know is to test 'em. The 5.8/8 decision should be made easier by PoCv11 in that it won't really matter; all antennas will emit the same power (as long as gain is reported correctly). I don't think you'll see a huge difference either day. The key is giving the antenna clear line of sight to other hotspot antennas.
fiveangle - 11/22/2021
If a bone stock miner like a brand new RAK MNTD Blackspot (2.3dbi sleeved dipole rubber duck) is getting routine witness_rssi_too_high, shouldn’t either the algorithm be retuned yet again, or RAK be required to deliver only compliant HW (assuming the rssi is in fact not physically possible with the asserted antenna gain w/PoC17 at the calculated distance) ? …Or is throwing ~6% of rewards away per day just the norm if you’ve highly optimized your placement (my placement is ideal with miner outside with line of sight from my high angle to nearly all “seeable” spots as I’m at top edge of a steep ~800’ mtn). …Or maybe I misunderstood, and PoCV11 is still not active yet (which would make more sense, that we just have to wait for PoCV11 to go live in in order to fix this problem) ? …Or is assured spec compliance not a feature of “official hardware” so I have to reduce my antenna gain from stock 2.3dbi rubber duck to even less, regardless ? Digging into helium explorer for all spots I’ve witnessed, anecdotally, the ones reporting highest rewards all seem to be asserting 5.8dbi antenna gain in my area (highly over-subscribed SF Bay Area, so <<1.0 transmit scale) yet these other spots are seeing near-zero instances of rssi_witness_too_high). Loved the informative article NIK, even though PoC doesn’t seem to be perfectly doing what was assumed (assuming it’s now live). Thanks a bunch for trying to help educate others ! AI4ME
Nik - 11/22/2021
Hi A14ME, PoCv11 isn't live yet. :)
Nikolaos Seitz - 11/28/2021
Hey Nik it's Nik, So will doing an input split (should reduce each leg 3.5dbi) between my 4dbi stock and the 5.8 dbi outdoor count as attenuation? I also have a 12dbi on standby.. and the outdoor unit has 10meters of cable I feel may be 240 which also introduces 1.4 to 2.3 dbi loss.. since I switched from the 4dbi I'm getting beacons like crazy but half are invalid..
Nik - 11/28/2021
Hi Nikolaos, I haven't heard of anyone successfully doing a split antenna set up. I'd pick one antenna, get it high, and call it good.
Jared Sherman - 11/29/2021
this is my dilemma getting whether I need to get my antenna high enough or getting a stronger one. (Cuddly Misty Otter) im at roughly 25ft/7.5M but the tree line maybe causing issues to my signal. I had the hntenna but never got witnessed I swapped to a 8dbi and I have witnessed others (still no witness to my beacons) and also now get the fun witness_rssi_below_lower_bound response. so I dont know what to do. I'm looking at maybe getting the Rohn H50 43' telescoping mast to try and clear some height. just not sure.
Nik - 11/29/2021
Get higher; that'll do way more than the antenna you have.
Jared Sherman - 11/30/2021
Thanks Nik I figured that would be the option I need to go with just not sure I need to keep the 8dbi or go back to the Hntenna 3dbi I guess I will have to test with each to see which would work best for my area being at that height and based on the other miners in my area
Jared Sherman - 11/30/2021
do you think having a network frequency analyzer is a good component to have on hand? been researching those to understand more and analyze the antenna signal.
Nik - 11/30/2021
They're fun if you're a geek, but not necessary. Remember, antennas are something like 5% of the earning equation. :)
Mhdmam - 12/8/2021
I have problem with sent beacon , just 2-3 get my sent beacon , so what's the problem in this case? I changed location , anntena , still same problem
Nik - 12/8/2021
How close are they? How many? What's line of sight like? What antenna are you using? How is it connected? Is your miner connected via WiFi or Ethernet? Lots of questions to answer there amigo. :)
Shien - 12/10/2021
So a month ago I set up my bobcaand well I wasn't witnessing or being witnessed, got a new antenna, and still nothing, and one update yesterday I am witnessing, but still no witnesses, where can I find something that tells me Ihave invalid RSSI?
Nik - 12/10/2021
Hi Shien, try checking Wishplorer's dashboard to dig into your data.
Mahmoud - 12/12/2021
Hello Nik My sent beacon always 0 Just 3 time have seen by 1 or 2 I changed location , antenna , tried everything but same problem
Mahmoud - 12/12/2021
And Im using 5.8 dbi , i tried 2 different 5.8 dbi , also i tried original 2.8 dbi , still sent beacon 0 witness (just 2 times i get 1 or 2 witnesses) , and im using real ip (Ethernet) all ports are open , and the hotspot in a verygood location and view. And I'm alone in me hex , scale 1.0 nearest hotspot to me is far by 800 m
Nik - 12/12/2021
Depends on other hotspots around you as well. If they have a poor setup they won't be able to witness you.
Mahmoud - 12/12/2021
Other hotspot around me have very good scal and witnessed perfect
Damiano - 12/17/2021
Hi guys I have one question. Since December 13th with the changes that have taken place, I find myself having 4 or 5 invalid transactions. Reading here and there, I think the problem is the too many db declared by my workstation. I really have 8 db and the antenna is at the right height (12 mt). The question is: I have an 8 db antenna and a 10 meter LMR 400 cable with one plug on the antenna and one on the bobcat. considering the dispersion, between the cable and the couplings, I lose about 1.8 db and therefore I should declare 6.4 db. Do you advise me to change the antenna value on the app? In your opinion, if I lower the db I solve this problem? Thanks for your availability and assistance. I accept any suggestions
Nik - 12/18/2021
Hi Damiano, def include cable loss in your declared antenna gain, you'll need to use the Custom option in the app.
Johnny - 12/19/2021
Hey gristle. Set up a miner at my sisters house at the hexagon next to me. From actual miner to miner. I use explorer to calculate the meters apart and it’s about 250 meters. When I set up my location for the miners at my sisters place I put it about 100 meters further away from the direction of my house. In the app where it says witnesses the distance between my miner and sisters miner is 800m. But it says it’s invalid due to miners being too close. Is there a way to make it work ? Do I have to relocate the location even a bit further ? Thank you
Nik - 12/20/2021
Hi Johnn, the app (once you've asserted) won't show you the actual location, just the center of the res 8 hex it's in. I'd use HeliumVision to determine correct placement for this. Sounds like you'll have to relocate a bit further.
Johnny - 12/20/2021
It looks like from the miner mine to my sisters house is about 250meters from the miner at my sisters house is asserted at. Which is 70 meters away from the actual miner. If I move it a bit further away. To 150metres. Will that be okay for poc 11?
Nik - 12/20/2021
Hi Johnny, Two things: First, you just have to test this stuff. Second, moving a miner 150m for privacy reasons is totally fine in my book. Moving it solely to clear a hex is technically gaming. The goal with the network is to provide WUPU coverage, and in general, 2 miners within even 500m of each other is usually too dense. I'd consider moving the miner to a totally different location where it'll help expand network coverage.
Johnny - 12/20/2021
Gotcha. I do have multiple miners definitely spread out in different cities. I guess I should rephrase what I was saying . The miner itself cleared a hex by itself without me taking the location in the first place. I was only moving it so it’s not too close to my own miner to which I didn’t wanna cause no witness, which is also in a hex of its own legitimately. I didn’t move it a hex just to get gains without actually being in that hex ! Just wanted to clarify so you didn’t think ima dick lol. Second. Thank you for referring that site. It was a huge help. I also got an enclosure and following your poe set up for my first try at at. Excited to let you know how I do !
Nik - 12/20/2021
Ah, right on! Happy to help mug, keep charging!
Baron Lopez - 12/28/2021
Hi Nik, One thing I didn't see addressed in your example was witness_too_close (same hex), where I live is completely flat (Houston, Texas) and have two hotspots in neighboring hexes, both have an 8dbi antennas mounted above the roof line and those two HS are working well together -- that's not my problem. The issue is one of those hexes I am 1 of 2 in the same hex where my other HS is all by itself in it's own hex. My HS that is not alone keeps getting invalid witnesses from the HS from it's own hex, which it says it's using a 1.2 dbi at 0 m, why do I get penalized for a HS that wouldn't be valid in the first place since we are in the same hex anyway?
Nik - 12/28/2021
Hi Baron, check out our Hotspot Deliverance series on YouTube, start over here.
Tim Van Geertruyen - 1/9/2022
Hi Nik, What is your opinion on using a bandpass filter? I'm breaking my head over why my 9dbi antenna's 130 ft high on a Church Tower don't earn as well as equal hight and antenna setups I know of. I'm in Europe (Old Seafoam Chinchilla)
Nik - 1/9/2022
Could be overshooting. Bandpass filters can sometimes help if you're right next to high output antennas (let's say less than 10m, though that's rough.) Better to get vertical standoff. The first thing I'd try is a lower gain antenna.
Tim Van Geertruyen - 1/10/2022
I see. I don't think that we're overshooting, because we're witnessing and being witnessed close by , if that's what you mean. However I forgot to mention that we installed 2 of them 4m apart from each other, with another 433Mhz antenna in the middle. Other antenna's are more than 100m away.
Nik - 1/10/2022
You installed 2 hotspots or 2 antennas 4m apart?
Tim Van Geertruyen - 1/11/2022
2 hotspots with 2 9dbi antennas 4m apart. Someone's 433mhz antenna right in the middle!
Nik - 1/11/2022
Hi Tim, I'd recommend getting those hotspots way further apart; 1,000m or more ideally. The antenna in the middle probably isn't causing problems unless it's pushing out a ton of power.
Alex - 1/12/2022
Hello Nik, very interesting and practical text. In my case, at 12 meters high outdoors with the internal RAK 2.8dBi antenna I was reaching other hotspots more than 200Km away (across the sea). I decided to raise it to 20 meters and change the antenna for a 5.8dBi antenna (also from RAK) to try to witness with them and now I only reach the closest ones, I get the message "2 x Witness rssi too high". Is this the same case you are dealing with here right? do you recommend me to go back with a 3dBi antenna?, I've tried to modify it in the configuration without success.
Nik - 1/12/2022
Hi Alex, yep, I'd go back to what works from a gain (3 dBi) perspective. I bet the extra elevation isn't the issue.
Dimitar - 1/21/2022
hi NIK, I started with bobcat with indoor 4dbi, i have metal roof and my house is in the low, have trees around me. after a week of doing nothing, i replaced my antenna with 5.8 rak outdoor and elevated 4m higher and i added 38ft of lmr 400, now i can witness one , but no1 can witness my beacons, should i try to switch to 3dbi ? Also im running of WIFI
Nik - 1/21/2022
Order of importance is probably: 1) Connect via ethernet 2) Check your line of sight to other hotspots, and if getting your antenna higher will provide more clear Lines of Sight, then 2) Get the antenna higher
Karl - 1/25/2022
Hello, Thank you for all the information up there. I have a Nebra hotspot, set up in my roof, which is 55m up from the ground, the building I am in sits on top of a hill, a bit like SF hills, which is in the middle of the city, there are almost no buildings higher than mine, fewer than 10/15. So basically my line of sight is endless. I set up a 5.8dbi antenna on the roof. The problem is I am getting invalid witnesses because of how good the signal is with far away hotspots. I came across a fix; change the dbi on the app without actual king changing it physically. Meaning, say my antenna is 9 dbi when it is actually 6. Does that work? Thank you for your help
Nik - 1/25/2022
Hmm, that might work but pretty close to gaming. You might try a lower gain antenna.
Ioannis - 2/23/2022
Hello Nik! My beacons (one per day?) get sometimes up to 14 witnesses and some even 23km away. But when it comes to me witnessing, I get maybe one per day and this is from hotspot from the same Hex, any idea what could be wrong? Unfortunately I am relayed, waiting for VPN setup..(router is still on transit). Setup: Sensecap M1, height 90m, 180degrees open view, 2.8db stock antenna. Thanks in advance for your time.
Nik - 2/23/2022
Hmm, sounds like your antenna may not be well placed, OR the antennas of Hotspots around you aren't well placed. 14 witnesses is the max per beacon, and 23 km is well within normal limits for LoRa. Get your antenna outside and up high. The Helium Basic Course is an excellent walk through of making sure you understand how the whole thing works (so you can optimize.)
David - 2/26/2022
I had a null witness that was 6 dBI RSSI, and -103 dBm. According to that chart it should have been valid. Is that plot a rough estimation? It was pretty close to the border but still clearly within the limit
Nik - 2/26/2022
The green & pink one is the old PoCv10 chart, not the new PoCv11, which is the current version.
Simon - 5/6/2022
Hi Nik Thanks for all the info you provide on your blog and in videos. One thing I see asked a lot on various discords is when entering your antenna gain in the app, do you put the actual gain of your antenna or do you take into account cable loss etc. so a 9db antenna with 2db cable loss, do you put 7db? Everyone seems to have their own different view on this Thanks Simon
Nik - 5/6/2022
Hi Simon, Take into account cable loss. The Network wants to know the signal strength to expect from your miner. The more accurate that is, the more likely you are to have valid witnesses.
Luis - 5/27/2022
This article is a bit misleading. Further distance is in fact ideal for those many miners in densely populated areas. Lower reward scales nearby being avoided and witnessing those further out higher reward scale equals greater earnings.
Rakman - 11/17/2023
I ran 2 hotspots 1 meter apart, asserted 1.1km apart. POC is VALID by keeping the RSSI values between -80dBm to -90dBm